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 Post subject: Re: EU and Brexit
PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2018 5:27 pm 
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nero wrote:


:lol:


Yeah, I find the Sex Pistols pretty good if you just wanna put your fingers in your ears and drown out the world.

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 Post subject: Re: EU and Brexit
PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2018 5:56 pm 
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EUBanana wrote:
nero wrote:


:lol:


Yeah, I find the Sex Pistols pretty good if you just wanna put your fingers in your ears and drown out the world.

I was thinking that it is the perfect "melody" when jumping off the cliff ;)

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 Post subject: Re: EU and Brexit
PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2018 4:22 am 
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I wonder if you would care so much if it was broke-ass Poland that was leaving... :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: EU and Brexit
PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:32 am 
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Bit of history, this is how the Lisbon Treaty - essentially the EU's constitution - was passed in the UK.

Quote:
Although the United Kingdom ratified the treaty in Parliament, this was not without some opposition. Broadly the governing Labour party supported the treaty, while the opposition Conservatives did not. The Liberal Democrats supported the treaty, while calling for a referendum on the UK’s membership of the EU as a whole.[119] Several ‘Eurosceptic’ MPs called for a referendum on the ratification of the treaty. Daniel Hannan pointed out that the Prime Minister, Tony Blair had twice promised a referendum on the matter, to which Blair replied that he had promised a referendum on the European Constitution rather than the Lisbon Treaty, which unlike the former was not a constitutional treaty.[120] In early October 2007, the Commons’ European Scrutiny Committee had found that the treaty was “substantially equivalent” to the rejected constitution.[121] In mid October 2007 Bill Cash tabled an Early Day Motion calling for a referendum on the treaty, with 47 supporting signatures.[122] In January 2008 a group of 20 MPs of the ruling Labour government (including former ministers, Kate Hoey and Frank Field) tabled a wrecking amendment to the treaty ratification bill that called for a referendum on the treaty. They pointed out that all the major political parties had promised a referendum in the 2005 general election. Prime Minister Brown (who had replaced Blair on 27 June, 2007) rejected calls for an election on the grounds that the treaty had significant differences from the constitution.[123] Gisela Stuart called for a number of measures that would help avoid a crisis of legitimacy for the treaty: a referendum on ratification, the creation of a cabinet-level Europe minister who would be accountable for negotiations, and that the final ratification of the bill (and any further changes to changes to qualified majority voting (QMV) in the European parliament) to be a matter of primary legislation that would go through all the parliamentary stages rather than being whipped through.[124] The same month, the Foreign Affairs Committee produced a report on the treaty which concluded that there was “no material difference between the provisions on foreign affairs” in the constitution and the treaty, and that the British government was underestimating and downplaying the significance of the proposed EU High Representative for Foreign Affairs and Security Policy and European External Action Service.[125] At the Second Reading in the commons 362 voted in favour of Lisbon and 224 against. Three Conservative MPs voted in favour of the Treaty, while 18 Labour MPs voted against it. The amendment calling for a referendum was rejected although 29 Labour MPs and 13 Liberal Democrats voted with the Conservatives in favour, and three Conservatives voted against their party.


Quote:
British Prime Minister Gordon Brown was the only national representative who was planned to sign the Treaty in the ceremony but did not take part, leaving Foreign Secretary David Miliband to sign the Treaty alone. Instead, he signed the document at a lunch for heads of state and government later the same day. A requirement to appear before a committee of British MPs was cited as the reason for his absence.[3] This brought criticism from opposition parties. The Conservatives claimed it made him appear “gutless” and referred to it as a "stunt” which proved Brown was "not very good at international diplomacy". The Liberal Democrats claimed it raised "serious questions" and Chris Huhne said showed "inept and peevish behaviour that leaves Gordon Brown's reputation for honest dealing with our EU partners hanging by a thread".[4] Parts of British media also criticised Brown for this, suggesting he did it because he was ashamed to sign the Treaty,[5] with Nick Robinson, BBC Political Editor, claiming that Brown was capable of attending the signing but instead chose not to.


Is it any wonder it's so loathed by so many?

It's literally built on lies and conspiracies in the UK. My whole adult life, the EU has meant bullshit like the above. Unending bullshit, unending lies, unending cheating. Maybe it's different in the rest of Europe, where people are more honest about the end goals, I don't really know, unfortunately nor do I really care, as my views have been made up two decades ago and reinforced by watching the bastards at it ever since.

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 Post subject: Re: EU and Brexit
PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:47 am 
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Then we have Sir Richard Dearlove, former head of MI6 so not a moron... saying that's exactly what they are doing. I suspect you don't get to run an national intelligence agency and know less than Nero does, to be frank.

Quote:
'We MUST be cut free' - Former MI6 spy chief WARNS Theresa May of joining an EU army
THE UK must sever all ties with the EU after Brexit including plans of joining a European army to avoid a situation in which Britain can never fully leave the bloc, according to an ex-MI6 spy chief.
Former MI6 chief Sir Richard Dearlove is calling on the Prime Minister to reject plans for an EU Army.

It follows a new study which reveals Whitehall officials are working with EU counterparts to keep the UK paying billions into defence projects.

The report says “participation of any kind is structurally prescribed to be integration, not cooperation”.

Sir Richard said: “We must cut free from real and present dangers of continuing entanglement and subordination to the EU after Brexit.”

His comments are a reference to the 1977 music hit by The Eagles.

His report is published by a new group of 50 pro-Leave academics called Briefings for Brexit.

Brexit news EU Army Theresa May Richard Dearlove Emmanuel Macron

His comments are a reference to the 1977 music hit by The Eagles (Image: GETTY)

The report comes after it was revealed earlier this month that a plan first announced by French President Emmanuel Macron to create a European defence force is getting the go ahead.

Mr Macron’s plan was also supported by the UK with Junior Defence Minister Frederick Curzon saying Downing Street was "very keen to support” the plan.

He suggested a European military force could be a way for Britain to maintain strong ties with the EU after Brexit.

The force has been set up in a way that there would be no obstacle to Britain taking part after it leaves the bloc.

Brexit news EU Army Theresa May Richard Dearlove Emmanuel Macron

Following the meeting, Mrs Mogherini said: "We have focused in particular on a flagship project in terms of EU-NATO cooperation and that is military mobility, where we have the purpose to allow for smooth and efficient movement of military forces across the European Union and beyond, removing existing procedural and regulatory obstacles but also reinforcing the EU infrastructures for the transportation of military equipment."

The meeting was also attended by members of the UN, NATO, the European Commission, the European Union Military Committee, the EU Military Staff and other EU organisations.

On Britain's involvement, Mr Curzon told the press: "We're very keen to support President Macron in this initiative.

"We look forward to sitting down with our French colleagues to work through the ideas that they have formulated for a more efficient and joined up security and defence system across Europe.

"We think it has a real part to play."



Whether in 2019, 2025, whatever, one day we'll be out. If the whole EU falling apart is how we get out, so be it. I mean such an institution, so thoroughly bent as it is, whose legitimacy is in a state of collapse right across Europe, cannot last.

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“The gap in EU finances arising from the United Kingdom’s withdrawal and from the financing needs of new priorities need to be clearly acknowledged.” - Mario Monti


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 Post subject: Re: EU and Brexit
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 7:08 am 
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Trawling for lies is fun.

The IMF in 2016...

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... referendum

Quote:
The IMF said last month that Brexit could spark a stock market crash and a steep fall in house prices. In Saturday’s report to conclude its annual assessment of Britain’s economy, it added that a leave vote would tie the UK up in trade negotiations that could drag on for years.

The resulting uncertainty would hit spending and financial markets, it said, estimating that even under a relatively benign scenario in which the UK negotiated a trade status similar to that between Norway and the EU, output would fall by 1.5% by 2019, compared with where it would be under continued EU membership.

It modelled a less favourable outlook, in which GDP would fall more steeply. “In the adverse scenario of long negotiations and a default to the trade rules of the World Trade Organisation, GDP plunges by 5.5% by 2019,” it said.


Reality is UK GDP growth currently 0.6%
Eurozone GDP growth currently 0.2%
IMF retards prediction = -1.5% minimum

See why all these economic predictions just make me laugh now?

Empiricism.

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“The gap in EU finances arising from the United Kingdom’s withdrawal and from the financing needs of new priorities need to be clearly acknowledged.” - Mario Monti


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 Post subject: Re: EU and Brexit
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 12:13 pm 
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EUBanana wrote:
Trawling for lies is fun.

The IMF in 2016...

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... referendum

Quote:
The IMF said last month that Brexit could spark a stock market crash and a steep fall in house prices. In Saturday’s report to conclude its annual assessment of Britain’s economy, it added that a leave vote would tie the UK up in trade negotiations that could drag on for years.

The resulting uncertainty would hit spending and financial markets, it said, estimating that even under a relatively benign scenario in which the UK negotiated a trade status similar to that between Norway and the EU, output would fall by 1.5% by 2019, compared with where it would be under continued EU membership.

It modelled a less favourable outlook, in which GDP would fall more steeply. “In the adverse scenario of long negotiations and a default to the trade rules of the World Trade Organisation, GDP plunges by 5.5% by 2019,” it said.


Reality is UK GDP growth currently 0.6%
Eurozone GDP growth currently 0.2%
IMF retards prediction = -1.5% minimum

See why all these economic predictions just make me laugh now?

Empiricism.

Those predictions are laughable because they are nothing else than lies. They know they lie, propaganda being the good way for them to impose their view. That was the same thing with the polls in Greece before their referendum in 2015: they gave the yes and the no very close, when the no won largerly. That was not a mistake, but a deliberate attempt to influence the Greek people. All those institutions (IMF, credit rating agencies, polling organizations...) are not objective or neutral, they work to perpetrate the so called globalism.

Fake news, like Trump says.


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 Post subject: Re: EU and Brexit
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 4:06 pm 
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LaPalice wrote:
Those predictions are laughable because they are nothing else than lies. They know they lie, propaganda being the good way for them to impose their view. That was the same thing with the polls in Greece before their referendum in 2015: they gave the yes and the no very close, when the no won largerly. That was not a mistake, but a deliberate attempt to influence the Greek people. All those institutions (IMF, credit rating agencies, polling organizations...) are not objective or neutral, they work to perpetrate the so called globalism.

Fake news, like Trump says.


Yup, you're right. If anything I'm not hard enough of em. It's not like they are merely wrong. They are out to deceive.

And then when people learn to doubt you have people saying "Oh you don't like experts, you're an ignorant hillbilly".

Hence empiricism - all true knowledge comes from experience, not authority. And when you have years of experience of these propagandists lying through their teeth, then you can brush off that sort of accusation very easily.

And this isn't a joke either, or some purely theoretical debate. How many millions of lives have been ruined in Greece due to these lies and dreams. They aren't starving millions to death in Ukraine at least like the last utopian dream but the single mindedness and complete unwillingness to compromise is without a doubt making Europe a more miserable place than it needs to be. So. They are a problem, not a solution.

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 Post subject: Re: EU and Brexit
PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2018 12:35 pm 
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EUBanana wrote:
LaPalice wrote:
Those predictions are laughable because they are nothing else than lies. They know they lie, propaganda being the good way for them to impose their view. That was the same thing with the polls in Greece before their referendum in 2015: they gave the yes and the no very close, when the no won largerly. That was not a mistake, but a deliberate attempt to influence the Greek people. All those institutions (IMF, credit rating agencies, polling organizations...) are not objective or neutral, they work to perpetrate the so called globalism.

Fake news, like Trump says.


Yup, you're right. If anything I'm not hard enough of em. It's not like they are merely wrong. They are out to deceive.

And then when people learn to doubt you have people saying "Oh you don't like experts, you're an ignorant hillbilly".

Hence empiricism - all true knowledge comes from experience, not authority. And when you have years of experience of these propagandists lying through their teeth, then you can brush off that sort of accusation very easily.

And this isn't a joke either, or some purely theoretical debate. How many millions of lives have been ruined in Greece due to these lies and dreams. They aren't starving millions to death in Ukraine at least like the last utopian dream but the single mindedness and complete unwillingness to compromise is without a doubt making Europe a more miserable place than it needs to be. So. They are a problem, not a solution.

Everyone is an expert, Plumber Joe can solve the mathematical problems as well as a varsity math professor. :roll:

NOT!!! :twisted:

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The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt

Mit der Dummheit kämpfen selbst Götter vergebens.


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 Post subject: Re: EU and Brexit
PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2018 3:32 pm 
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nero wrote:
Everyone is an expert, Plumber Joe can solve the mathematical problems as well as a varsity math professor. :roll:

NOT!!! :twisted:


Yeah, but in the case of economics, its GIGO.

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