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 Post subject: Re: What The Fuck Is Wrong With You Germany?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 4:10 pm 
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Of course, Europeans need to get their house in order in defence. But that effort has little to do with symbolic defence spending targets and even less to do with the impossible task of satisfying Trump. Rather, they should focus on creating a truly independent defence capability. That effort probably does involve more spending, but more importantly it means creating a European military capability that can stand on its own.


https://www.ecfr.eu/article/commentary_trumps_meaningless_nato_spending_debate

Sounds about right to me. :D


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 Post subject: Re: What The Fuck Is Wrong With You Germany?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 5:12 pm 
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Certainly predictable, I mean absolutely everything the EU nomenklatura ever utters is about how we need more EU.

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 Post subject: Re: What The Fuck Is Wrong With You Germany?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 5:20 pm 
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wulfir wrote:
Quote:
Of course, Europeans need to get their house in order in defence. But that effort has little to do with symbolic defence spending targets and even less to do with the impossible task of satisfying Trump. Rather, they should focus on creating a truly independent defence capability. That effort probably does involve more spending, but more importantly it means creating a European military capability that can stand on its own.


https://www.ecfr.eu/article/commentary_trumps_meaningless_nato_spending_debate

Sounds about right to me. :D


From that article:

Quote:
Sure, there are good reasons for Europeans to spend more on defence (though even here the issue is really spending more wisely rather than spending more.)


I would suspect that in the case of Germany having only roughly 25% of its tanks working, having only 4 of its fighter aircraft fleet working, and having none of their submarines able to leave port, then there are clearly some problems. And I think that even the Germans have acknowledged (by increasing their defense spending) that they have not been spending enough on defense.

Quote:
The NATO alliance does not depend on equal burdens, which it has never had; it depends on solidarity.


This (the reality vs the ideal) is actually true.
There have never been equal burdens in the past---the United States carried the largest share of that burden.
Solidarity has worked out well for those that depend on others for their security.

Quote:
And solidarity only comes when both sides are getting what they need and feel they are being treated fairly.


After having carried the lion's share for NATO/Europe's defense for 70 years many in the US no longer believe that the US is being treated fairly.
We have carried that burden while many NATO partners neglect their own defense spending while spending on social programs.
We have watched many of those same NATO partners criticize the US for various things (cowboy diplomacy, corporate greed, American cultural hegemony, etc) while at the same time standing under the US nuclear umbrella/security guarantee.
So when the elected leader of the US asks for a little bit more effort on the part of its NATO allies, he is branded as disruptive and not being a team player. :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: What The Fuck Is Wrong With You Germany?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 5:32 pm 
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wulfir wrote:
Quote:
Of course, Europeans need to get their house in order in defence. But that effort has little to do with symbolic defence spending targets and even less to do with the impossible task of satisfying Trump. Rather, they should focus on creating a truly independent defence capability. That effort probably does involve more spending, but more importantly it means creating a European military capability that can stand on its own.


https://www.ecfr.eu/article/commentary_trumps_meaningless_nato_spending_debate

Sounds about right to me. :D



Sure...like spending is not part of the problem?

If only 1 German sub can leave port and spending is not an issue...the what is left?

Engineering incompetence?

Design mistakes?

Administrative incompetence?

Lassitude?

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 Post subject: Re: What The Fuck Is Wrong With You Germany?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 7:14 pm 
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chijohnaok wrote:
So when the elected leader of the US asks for a little bit more effort on the part of its NATO allies, he is branded as disruptive and not being a team player...


Umm, I don't know - I think the article argues that Turmp uses defence spending as a club to get "concessions on what really matters to him: reducing the American trade deficit".

But, IMHO, the outcome of post-NATO Europe is more interesting than whatever the real reasons behind Trump's spending-offensive. I think Germany will play along and hope for a new Obama to take over after Trump, but if there's a new Trump after Trump, things might begin to move. Might. I don't have much hope (or confidence) in Italy or France taking the helm, so that kind of leaves Germany.


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 Post subject: Re: What The Fuck Is Wrong With You Germany?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 7:17 pm 
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jack t ripper wrote:
Sure...like spending is not part of the problem?


Depends on which problem we are talking about - if you mean the lack of German, and European military capability, spending is certainly a major issue, but it's not the only issue (sadly).


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 Post subject: Re: What The Fuck Is Wrong With You Germany?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 6:16 am 
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Quote:
Bin Laden's suspected bodyguard Sami A. deported from Germany

After years of delay, German authorities deported a 42-year-old Tunisian man believed to be an al Qaeda-trained bodyguard who once protected Osama Bin Laden. A last-minute court order to halt the move arrived too late.

...
"According to the court's decision, he should not have been deported," the spokesman told Die Welt, adding that the suspect would "ideally' be put back on the plane and returned to Germany.
...

https://www.dw.com/en/bin-ladens-suspec ... a-44658661

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 Post subject: Re: What The Fuck Is Wrong With You Germany?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 7:21 am 
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We have exactly the same problem with homies in Gitmo. Lower level islamists who can't simply be deported because their home country would probably draw and quarter them.

We paid off a South Pacific nation to take the Huighurs because the Chicoms would have put an AK-47 to the back of their heads 5 minutes after they go there.

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 Post subject: Re: What The Fuck Is Wrong With You Germany?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 6:24 pm 
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The cringing weasels have already surrendered to Islam. No need for defense anymore.

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 Post subject: Re: What The Fuck Is Wrong With You Germany?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 6:38 pm 
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doggie wrote:
The cringing weasels have already surrendered to Islam. No need for defense anymore.

Pity the beer and sausages. :(


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