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 Post subject: Re: Military stuff ... past and present.
PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 1:39 pm 
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mdiehl wrote:
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It's nice to see that you don't share Sneero's bigotry about Russians. Sneero's remark about Russians being lazy was infantile and straight out of some cryptofascist's "dehumanizing others in service to ethnic supremacy" playbook.
...

The Russian soldier's capacity to dig in was remarkable during the WWII. So no disagreement there.

But then the fact is that the Russians are not the most industrious and organised peoples. Given all the natural resources and populace their economy is rather underdeveloped based on exports of various raw materials like oil, gas and metals. Though there are more competitive sectors like the armament industry and nuclear power.

I bet you have never visited Russia or Soviet Union. ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Military stuff ... past and present.
PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 2:12 pm 
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mdiehl wrote:
As for a pan nordic alliance. Yeah. The map makes sense. And the general sense of shared ethnicity would seem at face value to make sense.


..and then mdiehl opened a history book and realised it is not a simple question of maps and shared ethnicity... :mrgreen:


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 Post subject: Re: Military stuff ... past and present.
PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 2:42 pm 
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Don't be an ass, Wiffle. You'd have to read constantly for 20 years to know as much about history or human dynamics as myself.

It's always been a question of politics, national ambition, will, the privilege of elites, etc. Kinda been my point, actually, when I state that the US support of continental western Europe has been a fucking waste of time. If it was simple, predictable, or followed logical rules, the US would have had allies that were worth a tinker's damn (save the UK), any time in the last 75 years.

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 Post subject: Re: Military stuff ... past and present.
PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 3:00 pm 
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mdiehl wrote:
You'd have to read constantly for 20 years to know as much about history or human dynamics as myself.


On Scandinavian history and conditions? I seriously doubt it. :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Military stuff ... past and present.
PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 3:03 pm 
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Sometime ago Lindy was gifted a suit of armor and there were a couple of youtubes about the first fittings, here are follow ons.






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 Post subject: Re: Military stuff ... past and present.
PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 4:27 pm 
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On Scandinavian history and conditions? I seriously doubt it


No. On global history and management of treaties, alliances, and related game theory and human behavior studies.

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 Post subject: Re: Military stuff ... past and present.
PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 4:42 pm 
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The day that Pepsi Cola became a major naval power:

http://www.redkalinka.com/Russian-Blog/ ... ary-power/

Quote:
Pepsi and its war fleet

In 1989, the initial agreement between Pepsi and the USSR was about to expire and the negotiations to sign a new one began. At that time, Pepsi already had more than 20 factories in the USSR that bottled the drink for distribution. The new trade agreement had a cost of about three billion dollars, and it was obvious that only the exclusivity of Stolichnaya vodka wasn’t enough to pay for it. The USSR still had difficulties in international markets to exchange rubles, so they had to find an alternative method of payment.

Again the Soviet Union found a solution: if in the 1970s they had plenty of vodka, now in the 1980s they had plenty of military equipment inherited from the Cold War. The USSR offered to pay Pepsi with a fleet of diesel ships. Pepsi accepted the deal because they knew that it was the only way to continue to sell Pepsi in the USSR. The agreement included 17 submarines, a cruiser, a frigate and a destroyer, which were sold to a Swedish company for scrap recycling. Those 17 submarines made Pepsi become, for a few days, the 6th largest military power in the world by number of diesel submarines. The president of Pepsi, Donald Kendall, told the National Security Adviser of USA: "We are disarming the USSR faster than you".



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 Post subject: Re: Military stuff ... past and present.
PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 1:28 am 
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mdiehl wrote:
On global history and management of treaties, alliances, and related game theory and human behavior studies.


Obviously did not give you much insight into Scandinavian history/conditions. :roll:


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 Post subject: Re: Military stuff ... past and present.
PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 9:42 am 
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I felt it was undiplomatic to suggest that Scandinavians, being backward looking troglodytic schizophrenics, likely could not cooperate well enough to host a dance party, much less a military alliance. My comment was intended to be a geographic observation, not a statement that Sweden, Norway, and Finland could make such an alliance work.

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 Post subject: Re: Military stuff ... past and present.
PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 9:52 am 
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nero wrote:
mdiehl wrote:
...
It's nice to see that you don't share Sneero's bigotry about Russians. Sneero's remark about Russians being lazy was infantile and straight out of some cryptofascist's "dehumanizing others in service to ethnic supremacy" playbook.
...

The Russian soldier's capacity to dig in was remarkable during the WWII. So no disagreement there.

But then the fact is that the Russians are not the most industrious and organised peoples. Given all the natural resources and populace their economy is rather underdeveloped based on exports of various raw materials like oil, gas and metals. Though there are more competitive sectors like the armament industry and nuclear power.

I bet you have never visited Russia or Soviet Union. ;)


Actually, everything in my sociology and history studies regarding Russia shows that they tend to work quite hard - for instance during USSR era Russians slaved away at factories challenged by often unrealistic quotas. There are exceptions of course such as a factory meeting it's quota early or so but in general their problem has not been that they don't work hard.

They switched from an agrarian society to heavy industry overnight - and agrarian people tend to come equipped with high working ethic because hell, you can die of starvation if you don't.

The problem was more to do with dynamics of leadership and so - the communist system itself encouraged theft, black market etc. with it's fixed salaries, prices etc - people saw that the *real* value of a commodity differed from what The Party had decreed it to be for decades and were being entrepreneurial true to their human spirit.

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