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 Post subject: Re: Hearts of Iron 4 Multi
PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 10:23 am 
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Thanks guys...

Now you've fucking sucked me into this game.

Take a while to figure this out.

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 Post subject: Re: Hearts of Iron 4 Multi
PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 1:56 pm 
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Zad Fnark wrote:
Thanks guys...

Now you've fucking sucked me into this game.

Take a while to figure this out.



:lol:

The more, the merrier.

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 Post subject: Re: Hearts of Iron 4 Multi
PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:21 pm 
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Zad Fnark wrote:
Thanks guys...

Now you've fucking sucked me into this game.

Take a while to figure this out.



Get in guys!!

Seems like a good time, there´s plenty of major changes and re-learning to be done for anyone already familiar with the game.

Liked what they did to special forces, before you could just change your division templates to all-mountain or marines for slightly better stats at higher cost in Inf equipment and manpower, now the number of special forces battalions is capped 5% or less, subject to tech, foci and doctrine.

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 Post subject: Re: Hearts of Iron 4 Multi
PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 7:15 pm 
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Looks very interesting. Makes WITP look simple.

I was going to invade Mexico, but couldn't find the war plans screen I needed to see to let me declare war.

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 Post subject: Re: Hearts of Iron 4 Multi
PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 10:44 pm 
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Zad Fnark wrote:
Looks very interesting. Makes WITP look simple.

I was going to invade Mexico, but couldn't find the war plans screen I needed to see to let me declare war.



The US Focus Tree allows the US (I presume that you are playing the US) to take action against the Chavistas in Venezuela. ;-)
That (rather than Mexico) is a good option while utilizing the Focus Tree.

Look for Reaffirm Monroe Doctrine--->then all 4 below that (Carib. Central America, The Neighbors, South America)---->Pax Americana---->Preemptive Intervention

THat will give you a War Goal against them and then allow you to either conquer or Puppet them.

Taking Venezuela will give you more oil, (and more importantly) deprive Nazi Germany from potentially trading with them for oil.



To justify a War Goal against Mexico (from the Diplomacy Screen) you will need (at minimum) for World Tension to hit 100%.

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 Post subject: Re: Hearts of Iron 4 Multi
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 12:34 am 
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Nice game. Few quirks I'm not crazy about:
1. You can "delete" a navy. The red trash can sign: doesn't mean "go into port and go to reserve status," LITERALLY means "scuttle the ship, IMMEDIATELY!" Fucking Paradox and their cartoon approach to navies . . .

2. The "Front Line" battle plan doesn't like to extend across international boundaries. Ridiculous and tedious. The "fall back" line thing seems like bullshit too.

3. Rhineland was fucking occupied in spring 1936, but in order to be even CLOSE to doing that, Germany has to bumrush a "National Focus" *shaking head*

4. Develop MP 38 and suddenly Kar98s are "obsolete!?" It does seem to somehow keep track of how many items of each type are upgraded, but the idea that the ENTIRE division would switch to an SMG is absurd!

5. I see the carried over their "spend a year+ to build up the 'justification' to go to war" bullshit from EU. No, that is not now it worked in WWII . . .

6. Overall the UI and unit handling are surprisingly well designed, given how incredibly complex all the functionalities are. There are a few quirks that could be addressed but overall good stuff.

7. The rate at which Germany produces divisions seems a bit slow. She had (if memory serves) 2.5 million troops in arms by the time of Fall Weiss. That would seem to be nearly impossible with this engine . . . my memory may be off though.

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 Post subject: Re: Hearts of Iron 4 Multi
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:26 am 
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Anthropoid wrote:
Nice game. Few quirks I'm not crazy about:
1. You can "delete" a navy. The red trash can sign: doesn't mean "go into port and go to reserve status," LITERALLY means "scuttle the ship, IMMEDIATELY!" Fucking Paradox and their cartoon approach to navies . . .

2. The "Front Line" battle plan doesn't like to extend across international boundaries. Ridiculous and tedious. The "fall back" line thing seems like bullshit too.

3. Rhineland was fucking occupied in spring 1936, but in order to be even CLOSE to doing that, Germany has to bumrush a "National Focus" *shaking head*

4. Develop MP 38 and suddenly Kar98s are "obsolete!?" It does seem to somehow keep track of how many items of each type are upgraded, but the idea that the ENTIRE division would switch to an SMG is absurd!

5. I see the carried over their "spend a year+ to build up the 'justification' to go to war" bullshit from EU. No, that is not now it worked in WWII . . .

6. Overall the UI and unit handling are surprisingly well designed, given how incredibly complex all the functionalities are. There are a few quirks that could be addressed but overall good stuff.

7. The rate at which Germany produces divisions seems a bit slow. She had (if memory serves) 2.5 million troops in arms by the time of Fall Weiss. That would seem to be nearly impossible with this engine . . . my memory may be off though.



Some responses:

1. See Scapa Flow :)
If you want to "reserve" some ships I would suggest that you simply move them back to one of your ports. Granted this will still require manpower on them. I have rarely ever "Deleted" ships. Even obsolete ones can be used to run convoy defense or convoy raid missions on sectors far from the front lines (meaning they are not likely to get into battle with the enemy but they can be useful in keeping that sector monitored). You will find this very important if you are doing an amphibious invasion over a very large distance (each naval sector that your invasion force will be sailing through MUST have some ships from your navy in it or you cannot launch your invasion).

2. The Front Line battle plan takes a little bit of getting used to. It certainly has its limitations but when considering that it can "run" multiple dozens of assigned units along a broad front, its performance can at times be remarkable. I generally make sure to "check up" on any push frequently to monitor how it is doing and may micromange specific units to move into advantageous positions (such as in creating or maximizing an encirclement).
The Fall Back line is (at least in my view) less a line to "fall back"(retreat to) and more a "do not move from here" line. That is how I use it.

3. If you're playing Germany the first thing to select from the Focus Tree is the Rhineland reoccupation. If you don't then your timelines to actual history will be delayed.

4. Meh....that is how they simulate the upgrades in this game. Keep in mind that this game is not intended to be a perfect recreation of real life or history. You have to factor playability into this as well. And you have to keep in mind the game audience--from "noob who has never played a war game before" to "grognard who has been playing wargames for decades". There is a player created mod (called "Black Ice") that has a more elborate equipment system (many more equipment types to it) but even it sometimes can drive me crazy--for example: You research "radios" (and even more specifically "artillery radios", "Tank radios" etc) and suddenly your entire army needs radios. In one fell swoop you find yourself short 6,000 radios. :lol:

5. The war justification thing can be annoying but to call "spend a year+ to build up the 'justification' to go to war" bullshit is not fair. Have you forgotten how isolationist that the US was in the years leading up to WW 2? On Sept 11, 1941, less than 3 months before the US entry into WW 2, Charles Lindbergh gave a speech on non-intervention to thousands of cheering supporters in Des Moines, IA. How long did FDR take to get the American public from its position to isolationism to support for war? On December 6, 1941 Roosevely still did not completely have the American public there. It took a sneak attack from the Empire of Japan on Pearl Harbor to finally (and firmly) swing the public to his viewpoint. IMHO the game developers have built this into the game as a check on "insta-wars".

6. Agreed and there is always room for improvement.

7. There are player mods that will allow larger manpower pools and for the creation of a larger army. But keep this in mind...even if you have the manpower pool, will you have the equipment to outfit them? Nationalist China can have a large army but that is in part enabled by the simple division templates that they have (mostly infantry rifles, with little to no artillery, support or armor). Yes, large armies but with basic equipment and they will suffer high casualties in the process.

Is this game intended to be a perfect simulation of history and actual military combat?
No, because you have to factor playability into it as well.

If you are looking for more depth, then I suggest that you check out the player created mods. There are many thousands of them, some of them very good.
I mentioned the "Black Ice" mods above. The Black Ice mods (the real ones not the knockoff ones created by people not associated with the Black Ice developers) are very good IMHO. They have not been updated yet to reflect the latest patch to the game. From following a DISCORD channel that the Black Ice modders set up, it may be another week or so before they have updated their Black Ice mods to be compatible with the most recent patch.

I can post you a link to where you can (eventually) upload the Black Ice mods from if you are interested.

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 Post subject: Re: Hearts of Iron 4 Multi
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 2:10 pm 
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I will definitely check out the Black Ice mod.

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 Post subject: Re: Hearts of Iron 4 Multi
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 3:08 pm 
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Anthropoid wrote:
I will definitely check out the Black Ice mod.


Ok, again, just keep in mind that the Black Ice mods have not been updated yet to the new patch. Last I heard it may be the weekend or another week before that is done.

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 Post subject: Re: Hearts of Iron 4 Multi
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 3:11 pm 
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Anthropoid wrote:
Nice game. Few quirks I'm not crazy about:
1. You can "delete" a navy. The red trash can sign: doesn't mean "go into port and go to reserve status," LITERALLY means "scuttle the ship, IMMEDIATELY!" Fucking Paradox and their cartoon approach to navies . . .

2. The "Front Line" battle plan doesn't like to extend across international boundaries. Ridiculous and tedious. The "fall back" line thing seems like bullshit too.

3. Rhineland was fucking occupied in spring 1936, but in order to be even CLOSE to doing that, Germany has to bumrush a "National Focus" *shaking head*

4. Develop MP 38 and suddenly Kar98s are "obsolete!?" It does seem to somehow keep track of how many items of each type are upgraded, but the idea that the ENTIRE division would switch to an SMG is absurd!

5. I see the carried over their "spend a year+ to build up the 'justification' to go to war" bullshit from EU. No, that is not now it worked in WWII . . .

6. Overall the UI and unit handling are surprisingly well designed, given how incredibly complex all the functionalities are. There are a few quirks that could be addressed but overall good stuff.

7. The rate at which Germany produces divisions seems a bit slow. She had (if memory serves) 2.5 million troops in arms by the time of Fall Weiss. That would seem to be nearly impossible with this engine . . . my memory may be off though.


The names of the units are just flavour text really. Saying its an MP40 is cooler than 'Infantry Weapons III' which is what it really is.

The justification mechanic I don't generally like in general, I think it works a lot better if you just stick to the national foci. And WW2 in some form will kick off, never fear...

If you're looking for realism to the level of 'But the Rhineland was occupied at this precise moment!' or 'But they had 3.27 million troops by 1942!' then HOI4 really ain't gonna deliver that - it's only just barely historically inspired really. I think if you turn historical foci on though then Germany actually will do that one first. It's actually not a bad starter, it's perhaps not quite so good in multiplayer because the Allies might go for it there and then and that might not be a good idea.

The front lines actually work pretty well I think. I hated HOI3 because handing over control to the dumb fuck AI was a pain in the ass. But in HOI4 it works pretty well. It's quirks do take getting used to - and falling back is actually really hard to do - but overall, that's just learning how to play, like any game.

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