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 Post subject: Re: EU4
PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 7:56 pm 
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Got EU3 when it first came out but never got into it, just messed around for a bit. After all the posting on this thread decided to give it go with a pirated Divine Wind v5.1. (have asked my family stateside to send me a legal copy from Amazon)

Let's Play has a thread with 4 tutorial AARs plus 2 more fun AARs.
http://lparchive.org/Europa-Universalis ... vine-Wind/

Old farts like me need help like that.

PS

May get EU4 when it finishes it's upgrading and a complete compilation is available.

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 Post subject: Re: EU4
PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 9:45 pm 
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abradley wrote:

May get EU4 when it finishes it's upgrading and a complete compilation is available.


Have you also thought of checking out Crusader Kings 2? It's been quite popular. Definitely some unusual strategy gameplay since it's focused on your family dynasty.

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 Post subject: Re: EU4
PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 9:00 am 
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jwilkerson wrote:
I loved EU2 ... but I couldn't ever get going with EU3 becaused they gutted it for simplicity :D


I never played EU2. I played EU1 though. Good game.

EU3 is better. ;) Very similar game really, they just glommed on some more stuff. Bureaucrats, prestige, advisors...

I've given up on EU4, in it's current state I maintain it's just a shit game when you see past the glitz. Merchant republics are totally gutted, forget playing Venice. There is no modelling of different states on that sort of level - sure, you can pick the trade ideas group. But so will 3/4 of the rest of the Europe. Turned me off the trade system big time when I realise there's basically nowt you can do except conquer stuff. If Venice is to be a trading power, start setting up the Venetian Empire in the Med, it's the only way the engine can express such a thing. Wars are kinda buggered too, the AI's negotiating algorithm is awful. You offer the French swine what they want, no joy. You gotta wait until they ask when they are good and ready. It's also laughably easy compared to EU3, I gobbled Scotland and Ireland like, instantly, without even breaking a sweat.

Obviously I would wish this not to be the case, given that cost 20 beans, but there we go. When there's some DLC maybe it'll be worthwhile. I thought the same of all their other Clausewitz engine games when they came out, so par for the course really. That Heart of Darkness expansion for Victoria 2 changed things so radically - it basically added WW1 to the game along with a bunch of other stuff. Big change, good change, made a previously rather empty game much more fun.

Lots of new things are better, but new does not axiomatically make something better. Police Academy 4 was a bust, too. :lol:



Speaking of Paradox... I'm playing a game of HoI3 multiplayer atm, there's me as Japan, someone else as Germany, and someone else as Italy. But the guy playing Germany is a total noob. However, that is awesome fun. All we need now is a few more to play the Allies...

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 Post subject: Re: EU4
PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 9:36 am 
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If you gobbled down Ireland and Scotland in a short period of time, then your Overextension rating would be through the roof and you'd have constant revolts by large armies for awhile. The rebel penalty for quick expansion into non-core territory is more punishing than it was in EU3, which had allowed for fast blobbing. I see a lot of people complaining about rebels being too strong/numerous, and it's a direct result of such actions as this. They're manageable if you don't try to blob like mad - otherwise it will get crazy.

Yet another improved system is the rebel faction's Demand options where they can force you to implement their demands without having to cap most of your provinces. You can also optionally concede with slightly less penalties before that time, too. This is another improvement that provides more depth, but we still see people complaining about missing some of the old & useless Great Persons & Ideas that nobody used, or not being able to Mint themselves into wealth.

Meh.. go back to EU3 if it was the epitomy of the series for you. I'm glad it's being relegated to the dust bin, here, because it had too many flaws that were never fixed and ultimately soured any campaign I played for long. You may want to keep an eye out for another upcoming standalone side project, reportedly being done by the modders of the MEIOU and Death & Taxes mods. Both of those improved the EU3 gameplay a good deal, although they couldn't quite fix some of the core mechanics issues. I just wonder which engine it will use.

In the meantime, I'm gonna start a CK2 Old Gods game in 867 and play it all the way through EU4 with the converter. Almost 1000 years! Hell yeah! Now to figure out the general area I want to start...

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 Post subject: Re: EU4
PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 10:12 am 
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NefariousKoel wrote:
If you gobbled down Ireland and Scotland in a short period of time, then your Overextension rating would be through the roof and you'd have constant revolts by large armies for awhile. The rebel penalty for quick expansion into non-core territory is more punishing than it was in EU3, which had allowed for fast blobbing. I see a lot of people complaining about rebels being too strong/numerous, and it's a direct result of such actions as this. They're manageable if you don't try to blob like mad - otherwise it will get crazy.


It wasn't that bad. You can spend some of your tech points on converting the provinces if you don't mind doing so. In EU3 you had to wait fifty years for the cores to change hands.

I never really recall much blobbing per se, beyond the Holy Roman Empire. Maybe for the player, if you go all out on territory gobbling. I dunno, I never felt the need to do so so long as my merchants are monopolising all the CoTs.

But I dunno, I like playing mercantile and hi tech realms primarily rather than conquering hordes - I quite liked the Republic in CK2 - and that's basically been butchered in EU4. I wouldn't be at all surprised if there is a Republic equivalent DLC in EU4 so the merchant republics are actually playable.

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 Post subject: Re: EU4
PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 11:18 pm 
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Are we the only two who've picked it up?

I wonder if Chijohn ever got sorted..


The coring definitely takes less time now, more so if you had a claim on a location before you took it. IIRC, the last ones I cored after capturing (with a claim) took around 5 years to core them. That's a notable change from before, although it didn't directly cost you extra points to do so back then. This seemed a bit too short a time but then again I've not seen how long it takes for one without a claim before the war started. There are also some extra difficulty factors added to offset this, however.

The big related change, in other direction, is that the Revolt Risk from Overextension is raised for all your provinces, not just the recently conquered ones. It's not a big deal unless you're gobbling up a lot of non-cored territory before coring the previous ones you had captured. So if you keep capping stuff within these 5+ year cycles, then you can get some nasty rebels groups popping up all over your country. Not just the province(s) in question. The rebel factions are also much faster in defeating you, as they don't need to take many provinces to force their demands on you. I had one rebel army take two provinces, and began getting warnings about my impending loss against them, for example. When I looked on the stability screen, that faction had ~93% progress to winning and I just barely defeated them in time before they would've forced me to release Norway as an independent state (they were Norwegian Nationalist rebels). All it would've taken them was two or three captured provinces and a little time. Once they capture their first territory, their victory bar starts progressing on it's own. If it gets really bad, and there are multiple active rebel factions/armies in your nation, you gotta put out multiple fires pretty quickly and maybe even decide which rebel groups you can afford to give in to if they win.

I'm impressed with how much they quickened the threat of rebels, so perhaps that was a change to dissuade the runaway blobbing. I've seen many people complaining about the size of rebel armies, and losing to them, so they must be doing something to make life difficult for the blobbers. :) I'm unsure what to think about the quick coring.. maybe it's too quick, but it certainly wouldn't be a good idea if they raised it to 10 years, or some such, while the rebel factions can defeat you so quickly as they currently do. I really prefer the potent rebels situation just because it pushes you to act quickly, and possibly make hard decisions if you have something else pressing going on. Otherwise it'd just be staring at the clock for 50 game years with the occasional rebel army popping up in that very localized place, depending on how bad your revolt risk was, and being only a minor annoyance. Yet you could still "blob" out more with such rebel issues being only local in nature.

Of course, you can also give in to rebel faction demands more easily so if there is some drastic change that one rebel group is pushing for, you can agree to their demands once they've progressed far enough. That's how I switched my official national religion to Protestant, for example. There are probably some demanding change in gov't types? Fortunately the AI has been handling it okay, too.

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 Post subject: Re: EU4
PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 9:07 am 
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I was forcibly Protestantised by rebels, so yeah the rebellions are pretty big. However, I wanted to be Protestant anyway so not a problem :).

I should try Bohemia and uniting the HRE, that was fun in EU3 and as it's all about violence it'd probably be fun in EU4. I notice they have all the same HRE mechanics as the expansion for EU3 did so at least they aren't gonna rip people off for a rehashed HRE DLC... I notice no Divine Wind equivalent though!

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 Post subject: Re: EU4
PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 12:06 pm 
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EUBanana wrote:
I was forcibly Protestantised by rebels, so yeah the rebellions are pretty big. However, I wanted to be Protestant anyway so not a problem :).

I notice no Divine Wind equivalent though!


It already has the Japanese and Chinese empire stuff included. People were complaining about a specific bug in becoming Shogun of Japan where it wouldn't properly fire in some circumstance. It seems to be a somewhat popular nation to play, nevertheless. The Celestial Empire extras are still in for China, too, although it doesn't seem as popular as Japan so I don't know if there are any issues there.

IIRC, there was always some bugs in EU3: Divine Wind with Japan regarding becoming Shogun. I dunno if they ever fixed them. Hell, they may have just carried over. :lol:

I'm not sure what to speculate about when it comes to future DLC for EU4. We all know it's gonna happen. Perhaps it will be extra shinies for the Merchant Republics. They certainly didn't get any extra special benefits other than a bonus for gov't types, along with Idea and Event specials for the three or four big ones (being some of the "featured" nations). I wouldn't be surprised if they added some extra game mechanics for them.

I just hope they don't jack shit up like they did with the steppe Hordes in EU3:DW. The extra 'mechanics' they received were just large blanket bonuses to combat and special exemption from warfare diplo concerns, which in turn made them just blob out half of europe in the early game (eliminating many major eastern european nations. which didn't happen historically).

Judging by CK2 they may also release some extra in-game editor DLC. That could come in handy, if you want to pump up your non-european nations or whatever other changes hit your fancy. I think there would be a demand for such DLC in a game with this scope.

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 Post subject: Re: EU4
PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 9:34 am 
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Fired it up again last night, attempt #2 to like it.

Playing England, of course...

Had the UK formed by 1550 ish. Wasn't so hard at all. Overextension never went over about 60% or so. The Reformation went by, in Britain at least, without much of a hitch, converted to Protestantism quite early, was Defender of the Faith for much of the time. No rebellion problems at all really - legitimacy and prestige were quite high mostly.

Then I got elected the Kaiser of the HRE completely out of the blue. WTF. Bug? Apparently you don't have to be in the HRE to be Kaiser - but being the most successful Protestant nation, all the German princedoms liked me. However as the UK it was quite easy to amass imperial authority so I figured what the hell, I'll be Kaiser then! I wangled taking Leuneberg so I'd have at least 1 province in the HRE as a core, not sure if that actually means the UK is deemed an HRE province though, I think not.

Amassed colonies in North America without really breaking a sweat, zero competition. I pretty much had the east coast, and the Spanish Main was still mostly empty so I was gonna take that too.

But... this game still has grave issues IMO. I've given it a damn good airing I would say, so a fair shake. Much of the game is waiting for points to be given to you so you can spend them. Like, 3/4 of it in practice. Tedious, especially as what you can spend them on is very limited. And... as I said before, the whole you take what you are given thing with monarch points being mainly based on your monarch absolutely SUCKS. That alone completely wrecks the game.

Being England I needed some good navy to keep le Frogs at bay with my wooden wall of carracks. Unfortunately I had about 4-5 monarchs in a row who had diplomacy scores of 1 or 2. After 100 years of IC time of this my naval tech was hopelessly behind my rivals - I was like, #8 in the world on diplomatic/naval tech despite assiduously hoarding every point my monarchs scraped up for technology and only technology. That sort of utter helplessness over something as fundamental as that makes the game a bust, IMO. Bankrupting your country to get a +3 for an expensive advisor is not really a solution, or a meaningful choice. After a while I had the cunning plan of putting my diplomatically challenged monarchs in command of a company of mercenaries, piling them into a transport, and sending them on a one way trip to searching for Atlantis until the boat sinks, in the hope of rapidly cycling through to a new one who wasn't going to leave me a generation behind my rivals technologically.

That I was doing this demonstrates how fundamentally idiotic the whole monarch point idea is.

And trade, they frankly may as well not bother having it as a subsystem you can interact with at all. My merchants were set up at the start and I never touched them again.

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 Post subject: Re: EU4
PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 3:57 pm 
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Then I got elected the Kaiser of the HRE completely out of the blue. WTF. Bug? Apparently you don't have to be in the HRE to be Kaiser - but being the most successful Protestant nation, all the German princedoms liked me. However as the UK it was quite easy to amass imperial authority so I figured what the hell, I'll be Kaiser then! I wangled taking Leuneberg so I'd have at least 1 province in the HRE as a core, not sure if that actually means the UK is deemed an HRE province though, I think not.


François 1er, king of France, was candidate and tried to be elected emperor of the HRE in 1519, but was beaten by Charles Quint (Habsbourg). So appenrently, even if you was not in the HRE, you could be elected. Certainly because the HRE wanted to be universal, the heir of the empire of Charlemagne and of the Roman empire.

edit: for the English language, it is Charles V, Quint is in French only apparently.


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