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 Post subject: Re: Stacking Limits (Game Design)
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 5:21 am 
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AngryOldMan wrote:
One thing about stacking in general is that it adds a tremendous amount of overhead to the AI player. The number of combinations that have to be examined grows exponentially once you allow even 2 units to occupy the same hex.

I'm pretty sure that's why so many WWII grand strategy games don't allow stacking at all.

OTOH, there is one positive tradeoff with allowing stacking for the AI player. Pathfinding can be greatly simplified as you can often move 'through' your own units. Things humans are extremely good at like moving a bunch of units out of the way to let another one through are much more difficult to program than you might imagine.


Fully agreed.

Density vs. breadth is a real challenge for AI because the human opponent is so quick at analyzing any weakness in the AI's formation. Spread too thin and player will punch through, too dense and player will encircle.

These days everything else about making a hex based strategy game is trivial and straight forward but AI is the heel of Achilles.

That said there's so much processing power on today's average gaming rig that it's a lot lesser issue than it was, say, 10 years ago. Not only is there a lot more processing power per processor but you've also regularly got 4 or more processors that can be threaded and then there are additional tricks to count a lot of things fast.

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 Post subject: Re: Stacking Limits (Game Design)
PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 9:38 am 
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How to determine stacking limits?

Look at real life frontages for the period and area you are trying to model.

Stacking limits between Alexander's time, Napoleon's time and WWII have changed.

And within the period, stacking limits for given terrain, season are different ... like mountains, desert, prairie, woods. Gather up the empirical data before making final decision based on bottoms up theory model. You are trying to model history,

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 Post subject: Re: Stacking Limits (Game Design)
PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 10:26 pm 
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jwilkerson wrote:
How to determine stacking limits?

Look at real life frontages for the period and area you are trying to model.

Stacking limits between Alexander's time, Napoleon's time and WWII have changed.

And within the period, stacking limits for given terrain, season are different ... like mountains, desert, prairie, woods. Gather up the empirical data before making final decision based on bottoms up theory model. You are trying to model history,


Yup.

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 Post subject: Re: Stacking Limits (Game Design)
PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 7:35 am 
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jwilkerson wrote:
How to determine stacking limits?

Look at real life frontages for the period and area you are trying to model.

Stacking limits between Alexander's time, Napoleon's time and WWII have changed.

And within the period, stacking limits for given terrain, season are different ... like mountains, desert, prairie, woods. Gather up the empirical data before making final decision based on bottoms up theory model. You are trying to model history,


That's the more simulatory approach. The more 'gamey' approach is that you simply try, try and try and keep changing balancing and other factors until it feels right as a system.

Essentially, economics, tech, cash flow - map sizes, turn length - all things considered it has to feel right and then you have a good game.

Simulators don't need to be 'good games', they need to be accurate and have a good interface.

It's possibly to mix both. Make a good game that also simulates certain aspects with certain accuracy.

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 Post subject: Re: Stacking Limits (Game Design)
PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2019 10:51 am 
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Been back at Hearts of Iron IV with Black Ice mod here lately and I was reminded of this shiz.

Sadly, the perfect grand strategy game remains elusive . . .

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 Post subject: Re: Stacking Limits (Game Design)
PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2019 4:58 pm 
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Anthropoid wrote:
Been back at Hearts of Iron IV with Black Ice mod here lately and I was reminded of this shiz.

Sadly, the perfect grand strategy game remains elusive . . .


I find I always go through the same 3 phases with a strategy game:
1) Learning phase - just trying to figure out all the rules and game mechanics. Lots of frustration, lots of googling and forum posts. Maybe some YouTube videos.
2) Proficient phase - finally understand how everything works and start to optimize my strategy. This is the fun part as everything that used to be hazy is now clear and I know exactly what to do and how to deal with challenges I'm likely to face.
3) Fed up phase - either the game gets too repetitive or I get too good at it and win too easily for it to provide any more satisfaction.

And at that point, I start the search for the next 'perfect grand strategy game'.

If I can get a month out of phase 2 I feel like I got my money's worth.

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 Post subject: Re: Stacking Limits (Game Design)
PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2019 3:09 pm 
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I'd think stacking would improve AI b/c the computer can crunch numbers better than I can regarding which hex to 'hit im where he aint'. "With the mostest" In Toaw I can't beat the computer unless I have more stuff where it needs to be. It's good gaming. Shrug. I've always reckoned stacking gives advantage to the automated opponent.

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