A Change in Mind about A Change in Climate

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Gary Childress
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Re: A Change in Mind about A Change in Climate

#11 Post by Gary Childress » Fri Jan 31, 2020 9:22 pm

Well I did find this reply to the video:


[youtube]https://youtu.be/XjPkclkZh6o[/youtube]
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Re: A Change in Mind about A Change in Climate

#12 Post by nero » Sat Feb 01, 2020 10:28 am

Gary Childress wrote:
Fri Jan 31, 2020 9:22 pm
Well I did find this reply to the video:

You kind of preempted me. I watched the Heller video and intended to response this weekend. But Mallen Baker does a good job to refute Heller though.

IMO Mallen is too polite though. He does not go far enough to delve in why Heller posts his conspiracy theories. Has Heller cognitive problems or is he a professional misinformer, a merchant of doubt.

But Baker points out that Heller uses exactly same tactics that he blames NOAA is using: cherry picking, comparing apples and oranges, and hiding relevant data.

I noticed same things that Mallen points out: the Heller's forest fire graph comparing apples and oranges, the sea level rise ignoring land rising in New York and with the arctic sea ice loss comparing incomparable data and hiding last 30 years of data.

Perhaps Heller was a little sloppy because he was so butthurt with the NOAA poster.

Though I am myself curious about the number of forest fires in the US.

I find Baker interesting in sense that he is critical to extinction rebellion agenda. I agree with him that 3 centigrade rise of global temperature would not be end of the world. But I find it problematic that temperature change is so fast. It took 10000 years when the Earth came out of ice age with 4 centigrade warming. And we may be doing the same less than 200 years. Can nature adapt, can humans adapt? Also Mallen thinks that quick climate action will cost too much. But how much does do-nothing policy cost. During the Eemian time sea level was 7 meters higher than now and the global temperature was about the same than now.

Did you watch Dan Britt's presentation? He is a scientist with a little longer perspective about the role of CO2 in Globes climate. I recommend that over anything that Tony Heller and other climate conspiracy theorists post.



;)
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Re: A Change in Mind about A Change in Climate

#13 Post by Gary Childress » Sat Feb 01, 2020 9:32 pm

nero wrote:
Sat Feb 01, 2020 10:28 am
IMO Mallen is too polite though. He does not go far enough to delve in why Heller posts his conspiracy theories. Has Heller cognitive problems or is he a professional misinformer, a merchant of doubt.
I assume Heller is probably sincere. There is a lot of incentive out there to oppose the climate sciences. It's also a bit of a trust issue. It's hard to place your fate in the hands of a few, especially when doing so would probably result in a lot of social upheavals. Change is almost always difficult. It took a world war to get us to transform our society into the industrial powerhouse that it was for a long time. Command economies can change overnight because they just tell people what to do and people either do it or get beaten. But the human cost can be high. So I understand people's reluctance. But I can also understand why some people wig out, with all the doom and gloom forecasts, and start clawing at the walls to change the world. And it doesn't help that scientists aren't in unanimous acceptance of the conclusions or all the data and that there have been errors crossing the "Ts" and dotting the "Is". In that sense, you can witness the academics trying to be the "first" and vying for research dollars.

It's a clusterfuck for sure.
Last edited by Gary Childress on Sat Feb 01, 2020 9:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: A Change in Mind about A Change in Climate

#14 Post by Gary Childress » Sat Feb 01, 2020 9:34 pm

nero wrote:
Sat Feb 01, 2020 10:28 am

Did you watch Dan Britt's presentation? He is a scientist with a little longer perspective about the role of CO2 in Globes climate. I recommend that over anything that Tony Heller and other climate conspiracy theorists post.



;)
I didn't watch Britt's video. I started it but left it after a little while for other things. I assume he gives data supporting man-made climate change? I mean, he may be right.
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Re: A Change in Mind about A Change in Climate

#15 Post by nero » Sun Feb 02, 2020 1:49 am

Gary Childress wrote:
Sat Feb 01, 2020 9:34 pm
I didn't watch Britt's video. I started it but left it after a little while for other things. I assume he gives data supporting man-made climate change? I mean, he may be right.
Actually Dan does not give evidence of man made climate change. But more of the role of CO2 in climate history.

Watch it. It is pretty entertaining. ;)
A stupid person is a person who causes losses to another person or to a group of persons while himself deriving no gain and even possibly incurring losses. -- Carlo M. Cipolla

Mit der Dummheit kämpfen selbst Götter vergebens. -- Friedrich Schiller

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Re: A Change in Mind about A Change in Climate

#16 Post by nero » Wed Feb 05, 2020 7:26 am

Mallen has a point.



The irrational, emotional left is also a problem the US, just like the dinosaur right. :twisted:
A stupid person is a person who causes losses to another person or to a group of persons while himself deriving no gain and even possibly incurring losses. -- Carlo M. Cipolla

Mit der Dummheit kämpfen selbst Götter vergebens. -- Friedrich Schiller

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Re: A Change in Mind about A Change in Climate

#17 Post by EUBanana » Thu Feb 06, 2020 11:13 am

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/03/clim ... shima.html

No fucks given.

While we're doing extreme things like banning internal combustion engines pretty soon, Asia DGAF.

Just reinforces how what the western world does is frankly irrelevant, if you think virtue signalling and 'setting an example' works you're off your tits on something and you should send it to me, because its good stuff.
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Re: A Change in Mind about A Change in Climate

#18 Post by nero » Thu Feb 06, 2020 4:37 pm

EUBanana wrote:
Thu Feb 06, 2020 11:13 am
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/03/clim ... shima.html

No fucks given.

While we're doing extreme things like banning internal combustion engines pretty soon, Asia DGAF.

Just reinforces how what the western world does is frankly irrelevant, if you think virtue signalling and 'setting an example' works you're off your tits on something and you should send it to me, because its good stuff.
And Germany too they give up nukes and go for goal: Climate activists in Germany break into Fortum-linked coal plant.

Fortum says that they close dirtier old plants. :roll:

I have a dilemma, I own a little Fortum stock and Fortums pays usually good dividends. :?
A stupid person is a person who causes losses to another person or to a group of persons while himself deriving no gain and even possibly incurring losses. -- Carlo M. Cipolla

Mit der Dummheit kämpfen selbst Götter vergebens. -- Friedrich Schiller

Gary Childress
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Re: A Change in Mind about A Change in Climate

#19 Post by Gary Childress » Mon Feb 10, 2020 4:26 pm

EUBanana wrote:
Thu Feb 06, 2020 11:13 am
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/03/clim ... shima.html

No fucks given.

While we're doing extreme things like banning internal combustion engines pretty soon, Asia DGAF.

Just reinforces how what the western world does is frankly irrelevant, if you think virtue signalling and 'setting an example' works you're off your tits on something and you should send it to me, because its good stuff.
What I worry about, though, is what if climate change is going to result in catastrophic changes to the world or whatever. In that sense maybe it doesn't matter what the other guy is doing, maybe we need to start cutting emissions and such and not worry about everyone else.
"Service guarantees citizenship" :(

Welcome to the Maddrive Dogthru!

"One of the symptoms of an approaching nervous breakdown is the belief that one's work is terribly important." - Bertrand Russell

nero
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Re: A Change in Mind about A Change in Climate

#20 Post by nero » Mon Feb 10, 2020 4:44 pm

Gary Childress wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 4:26 pm
EUBanana wrote:
Thu Feb 06, 2020 11:13 am
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/03/clim ... shima.html

No fucks given.

While we're doing extreme things like banning internal combustion engines pretty soon, Asia DGAF.

Just reinforces how what the western world does is frankly irrelevant, if you think virtue signalling and 'setting an example' works you're off your tits on something and you should send it to me, because its good stuff.
What I worry about, though, is what if climate change is going to result in catastrophic changes to the world or whatever. In that sense maybe it doesn't matter what the other guy is doing, maybe we need to start cutting emissions and such and not worry about everyone else.
The world does not end if there are no cuts in CO2 emissions, but it comes then very expensive. But the thing is as per usual, other reap the benefits and the rest of us face the consequences.

But to get some perspective, a 500 million year perspective, watch the video that I recommended. To have some common ground to base our discussion on. ;)
A stupid person is a person who causes losses to another person or to a group of persons while himself deriving no gain and even possibly incurring losses. -- Carlo M. Cipolla

Mit der Dummheit kämpfen selbst Götter vergebens. -- Friedrich Schiller

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