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 Post subject: Global warming musings
PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 6:20 am 
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I've been having some fun trolling on Reddit where I back up geoengineering and genetic engineering as a solution to climate change.

There are various geoengineering methods being proposed, the cheapest seems to be artificial clouds made by spraying seawater into the air to increase the Earths albedo, thus having a cooling effect.

All these geoengineering projects, even the grandiose ones, cost peanuts compared to 'greening' the economy - of the order of 1%. Seems to be the ideal solution therefore.

But whenever you talk to environmentalists about this stuff it quickly becomes clear that fixing the problem in the most efficient manner possible is actually not their intent. As I asked someone directly, if you could fix climate change and nobody had to change their lifestyle at all, for a very minimal cost, is that not the ideal solution? This just makes everybody I challenge with that angry, I've noticed. They would much rather we wear hair shirts than fix the problem as cheaply and easily as possible.

So it's really NOT about climate change at all. It's about piousness, virtue signalling, and sneering condescension for the lifestyle of others.

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 Post subject: Re: Global warming musings
PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 6:36 am 
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EUBanana wrote:
I've been having some fun trolling on Reddit where I back up geoengineering and genetic engineering as a solution to climate change.

There are various geoengineering methods being proposed, the cheapest seems to be artificial clouds made by spraying seawater into the air to increase the Earths albedo, thus having a cooling effect.

All these geoengineering projects, even the grandiose ones, cost peanuts compared to 'greening' the economy - of the order of 1%. Seems to be the ideal solution therefore.

But whenever you talk to environmentalists about this stuff it quickly becomes clear that fixing the problem in the most efficient manner possible is actually not their intent. As I asked someone directly, if you could fix climate change and nobody had to change their lifestyle at all, for a very minimal cost, is that not the ideal solution? This just makes everybody I challenge with that angry, I've noticed. They would much rather we wear hair shirts than fix the problem as cheaply and easily as possible.

So it's really NOT about climate change at all. It's about piousness, virtue signalling, and sneering condescension for the lifestyle of others.



You can look at the "Green New Deal" that was proposed by US Congressman AOC and her allies as an example of this.

Their "aspirational" document was short on many details.
It was very unrealistic in some of its ideas (such as eliminating air transport in favor of high speed rail (how do you build a train from the West Coast to Hawaii?))
Their document also contained many goals that had less to do with attempting to control climate change and more to do with social engineering (such as a guaranteed wage for all, even those that refuse to work, universal health care, etc).

Also, as you pointed out, the reluctance/refusal to include nuclear power as an energy component, despite its low/nonexistent carbon footprint is another perfect example.

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 Post subject: Re: Global warming musings
PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 6:42 am 
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chijohnaok wrote:
Also, as you pointed out, the reluctance/refusal to include nuclear power as an energy component, despite its low/nonexistent carbon footprint is another perfect example.


Yes, that's why I have some respect for George Monbiot (the Guardian loony journalist) because at least he's focused on the results. He wants to reduce CO2 emissions, therefore he's pro-nuclear power. That lost him a lot of friends in the eco-left circles he moves in.

But it would actually work. He's honestly looking to solve the problem, the actual problem of CO2 emissions for most environmentalists is entirely secondary to the other stuff they want to preach about.

Hence why the other thing that makes them angry is noting China and India. Not one protest outside the Chinese embassy over pollution, as far as I know. Rank hypocrisy, though we have to continue with economic hari kiri because 'we can't lecture them if we don't practice what we preach'.

Well, we're already far in advance of China in this regard so we don't need to go any further to lecture them. And they aren't impressed by our example, they are laughing their asses off at how dumb we are.

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 Post subject: Re: Global warming musings
PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 7:35 am 
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EUBanana wrote:
There are various geoengineering methods being proposed, the cheapest seems to be artificial clouds made by spraying seawater into the air to increase the Earths albedo, thus having a cooling effect.

.

I almost know nothing about that technique, but I read something about it some times ago. I am not sure that I understand it very well. But does that mean that the sky will be covered by clouds endlessly? If it is the case, I am against it, we need the sun.

A less trivial cristicism is that some regions of the world will not have enough rain with that technique.


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 Post subject: Re: Global warming musings
PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 9:43 am 
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LaPalice wrote:
EUBanana wrote:
There are various geoengineering methods being proposed, the cheapest seems to be artificial clouds made by spraying seawater into the air to increase the Earths albedo, thus having a cooling effect.

.

I almost know nothing about that technique, but I read something about it some times ago. I am not sure that I understand it very well. But does that mean that the sky will be covered by clouds endlessly? If it is the case, I am against it, we need the sun.

A less trivial cristicism is that some regions of the world will not have enough rain with that technique.



http://www.anthropocenemagazine.org/201 ... he-planet/

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 Post subject: Re: Global warming musings
PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 10:53 am 
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EUBanana wrote:
LaPalice wrote:
I almost know nothing about that technique, but I read something about it some times ago. I am not sure that I understand it very well. But does that mean that the sky will be covered by clouds endlessly? If it is the case, I am against it, we need the sun.

A less trivial cristicism is that some regions of the world will not have enough rain with that technique.



http://www.anthropocenemagazine.org/201 ... he-planet/

The heat wave is back this week. I am ok with it, I prefer that to the clouds. And I don't think that now it is possible to stop the end of the world, our destinity, as species, is to disappear, so...

And it is a good idea to stop global warming, but what about the extinction of animal species. Not sure that some clouds will stop it.


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 Post subject: Re: Global warming musings
PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 1:11 pm 
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EUBanana wrote:
I've been having some fun trolling on Reddit where I back up geoengineering and genetic engineering as a solution to climate change.

There are various geoengineering methods being proposed, the cheapest seems to be artificial clouds made by spraying seawater into the air to increase the Earths albedo, thus having a cooling effect.

All these geoengineering projects, even the grandiose ones, cost peanuts compared to 'greening' the economy - of the order of 1%. Seems to be the ideal solution therefore.

But whenever you talk to environmentalists about this stuff it quickly becomes clear that fixing the problem in the most efficient manner possible is actually not their intent. As I asked someone directly, if you could fix climate change and nobody had to change their lifestyle at all, for a very minimal cost, is that not the ideal solution? This just makes everybody I challenge with that angry, I've noticed. They would much rather we wear hair shirts than fix the problem as cheaply and easily as possible.

So it's really NOT about climate change at all. It's about piousness, virtue signalling, and sneering condescension for the lifestyle of others.

It is a good thing that the problem is recognized.

But this kind of geoengineering is like taking aspirin for pneumonia.

There has been so as much CO2 in the as now in the atmosphere last time 3 millions ago and sea level was more than 10 meters higher and the average temperature also 5C higher than now. The steady state is not an issue, the Earth has been even warmer before. It is not the end of the world.

The problem is the rate of change, but speed of the CO2 increase in the atmosphere, and hence rapid warming. Nothing like current warming has not happened during last 580 millions years. Perhaps warming out of Snowball Earth might have been faster. The transient is the killer.

What would be the cost of one meter sea level rise all around the world. Less than 1C warming brings back the Eemian period temperature, and the sea level was some 7 meters higher. How much would that cost? And we are heading towards even more warming.

As before it is positive that the problem has been acknowledged.

But I am skeptical that just spaying sea water high up in the low latitudes would cool the earth enough, without cutting down the greenhouse gas emissions and taking CO2 off the atmosphere.

But a combination of all three is necessary to control the transients.

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 Post subject: Re: Global warming musings
PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 1:34 pm 
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That’s another reason why geoengineering would appear to be the answer - we’ve already released the CO2. There’s a lot of warming baked in already.

So... climate change mitigation and geoengineering would seem to be actually far more important now. Even if China was on board then it would seem we might still need those technologies.

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 Post subject: Re: Global warming musings
PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 2:07 pm 
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EUBanana wrote:
That’s another reason why geoengineering would appear to be the answer - we’ve already released the CO2. There’s a lot of warming baked in already.

So... climate change mitigation and geoengineering would seem to be actually far more important now. Even if China was on board then it would seem we might still need those technologies.

This seawater spraying might the only quick remedy. If it works at all. I understand the idea is to have salt injected to high troposphere to create clouds the reflect back the sunshine. In the same time reducing the salinity of the oceans can increase algae production and hence taking out CO2.

But in the same time water vapor is a potent greenhouse gas. I certainly don't know how sprayed sea water acts in atmosphere, does the salt reflect more incoming sun energy back more than water vapor prevents heat escaping. But I think that I could understand the calculations if I see any. Then how would these clouds effect the climate other ways? Nobody knows. :(

The first step is to reduce emissions transforming energy creation to renewables like solar, wind, tidal, hydro. Nuclear is a viable option too, especially standardized small power plants that produces bot electricity and heath/cool.

Then there are ways to take CO2 back from air to forests and other vegetation. I have seen plans to reforest Sahara. But in this respect what is happening in Brazil is most discouraging, cutting down Amazonas is criminal. Fuck Bolsonaro.

While I prefer cutting the emissions and taking back the CO2, I am ruminate on seawater spraying too.

Or if you like all the three:

1) Reducing emissions.
2) Taking back CO2.
3) Reflecting back solar energy.

Cheers.

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Mit der Dummheit kämpfen selbst Götter vergebens.


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 Post subject: Re: Global warming musings
PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2019 11:52 pm 
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How question now in England.

Q. What do call a place with many record warm days one after another?
A. Heatrow.

:mrgreen:

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Mit der Dummheit kämpfen selbst Götter vergebens.


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