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 Post subject: Re: Future Small Arms?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 9:12 am 
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One thing is absolutely certain - human grunts will not rely on their own senses.

Already we have things like the Thor integrated battle helmet which provides a dynamic sound system, both protecting user against loud sounds while simultaneously amplifying low sounds, making you more resistant to loss of hearing while allowing you to hear enemy footsteps and weapons being locked in the distance.

Eyes must be kept safe at all times, dazzlers are going to make sure of that. You can literally have one of those dog robots sweep the enemy positions with intensive eye damaging laser.

So indeed a predator mask style solution is a must for any appropriately equipped trooper - and this integrated helmet will be far more important accessory than helmet itself was. It will feature IR, light enhancement and for specialists varying wide spectrum capabilities.

But even better would be not to have the highly skilled operator at risk. For example what I spoke of earlier, a human operator leading a team of robots, seeing a collage of all their views on his tactical view, being able to directly override controls of any single or even multiple units - multitasking could be a huge thing, with single operator operating multiple robots, kind of like Starcraft players micromanage hundreds of units with 300+ actions per minute.

Such operators would be highly valuable and needed to be heavily protected.


One important aspect is that the available energies to be deployed for warfare simply keep growing. Already many countries are incapable of fighting each other because the energy released from such engagement would even in best case scenario indirectly impact their own country through our shared climate being changed, nuclear winter etc.

This will be a major influencer on any ground combat in the future. Conflicts will be increasingly proxy wars, special operations and emphasizing fast and decisive action. Million man armies are largely redundant when you can vaporize the enemy civilization in 30 minutes, as the players of the game will focus on furthering their own national and ideological interests they will deploy increasingly sophisticated, mechanized and costly systems.

So, we might see things like aerially deployed mechs under USSOCOM, special mech battalion with support elements, able to take out that asshat dictator within 40 minutes of having received word that he is planning to switch to Chicom camp.

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 Post subject: Re: Future Small Arms?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 8:33 pm 
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Quote:
But what about your typical infantryman?


Small guided projectiles moving very fast. Think "smart .223 bullets."

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 Post subject: Re: Future Small Arms?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 7:15 am 
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mdiehl wrote:
Quote:
But what about your typical infantryman?


Small guided projectiles moving very fast. Think "smart .223 bullets."


The problem with very fast and guided is that if they're supersonic then aerodynamics suffer greatly and the effect is only exaggerated on the typical short distances of 50-150 meters that infantry engagements tend to be in.

Second, if you're going for longer distances then these small calibers lose energy very rapidly.

In combination these can allow for some interesting scenarios, such as a very low caliber round that has high kinetic energy on short distances where accuracy isn't such a problem in any case and which loses enough velocity over longer ranges to allow for increased accuracy in long range engagements at the cost of power.

Personally my intuition would be just to up the caliber, so it can maintain guided properties on short distances and have high impact even over long distances. Upping the caliber allows for increased performance against personal armor which is to be expected a standard issue for any opponent, it also allows for limited ability to engage vehicles. Bigger round also allows for more special types, explosive, incendiary etc.

Could be wrong too.

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 Post subject: Re: Future Small Arms?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 1:17 pm 
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Good ideas, thanks guys!

"Million man armies are largely redundant when you can vaporize the enemy civilization in 30 minutes;" yup totally agree. Proxy wars, asymmetric, "hybrid" wars would seem to be the way of the future. Unless a whacked out player like a jihadi group or a DPRK style dictator sets off something bigger. Russians may be lacking in ethics but they are at least sane enough to understand MAD as are Chinese, Indians and (to some degree apparently) Pakistanis, Israelis, and Frenchies.

"Small guided projectiles moving very fast. Think "smart .223 bullets."" It is an intriguging idea, how would it guide itself? What method of turning?

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 Post subject: Re: Future Small Arms?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 9:55 pm 
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Fin stabilized w/ movable fins is my guess. Miniaturization should make it doable. Or may e a repositionable internal weight that makes use of the bullet's shape to adust direction. I'd bet a dollar to a squirrel nut zipper that something like it has bern designed for the .50 bmg already.

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 Post subject: Re: Future Small Arms?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 4:18 am 
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mdiehl wrote:
Fin stabilized w/ movable fins is my guess. Miniaturization should make it doable. Or may e a repositionable internal weight that makes use of the bullet's shape to adust direction. I'd bet a dollar to a squirrel nut zipper that something like it has bern designed for the .50 bmg already.


I've seen videos and read of the prototypes. The bullet has to fit an electric circuit capable of homing in to some kind of target/signal.

I'm not sure of the supersonic pressure bubble mechanics on small projectiles - what size the bubbles are - but you need to be able to stick the fins outside the bubble or else they're not going to have much impact. Or else you need to fly subsonic, which itself allows for more time to home in on the target.

Internal would seem to have issues with introducing tumbling, though the bullet can of course have strongly self stabilizing shape. I'd put my money on fins, but then again it's nowhere near my area of expertise. Could get probably as good of a guess if you asked random folks at bar.



No fins. Mass center repositioning.

Easier to do with bigger rounds, on smaller rounds just fitting that stuff in is going to be difficult. Besides, bigger caliber is always more versatile, in general it's good to rather increase accuracy than spray and pray, especially since then you can add firepower and each of those hits is going to be that much more effective.

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 Post subject: Re: Future Small Arms?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 12:20 pm 
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Agreed. I figured doable now with larger rounds and with miniaturization possibly doable in the future with smaller rounds.

And thanks for the video link too. That was new info to me. So there it is. "Center of mass repositioning."

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 Post subject: Re: Future Small Arms?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 2:20 pm 
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Metal Storm is an Australian company that develops stacked loaded "superposed load weapons technology".

Their designs have multiple rounds simultaneously in the barrel, stacked, to create very high rates of fire.

They have made gun designs and they also have a mortar design:


Quote:
J. Mike O'Dwyer's original Metal Storm patents demonstrated a method whereby projectiles placed in series along the length of a barrel could be fired sequentially and selectively without the danger associated with unintended propellant ignition.


They use electrically ignited rounds, much like Olympic rapid fire pistols but they also invented a skirt in their rounds that is sealed by the impulse of the top of the stack projectile as it is fired - so firing a round seals the propellants of the others, allowing select fire without incident.

They've also shown rapid reload system of these guns with barrel magazines, thing of a barrel that goes into the barrel, not unlike with artillery shells really.


This fits perfectly small arms category since I don't see how this would work as well with something like heavy artillery. It works best with small arms to mortar force range.

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 Post subject: Re: Future Small Arms?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 7:26 pm 
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Metal Storm is a bit of a failure apparently; I forget why, I recall reading it somewhere though.

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 Post subject: Re: Future Small Arms?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 7:31 pm 
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Interesting stuff. You know what that metal storm grenade launcher sounds like when it fires four shots!?

The opening drum riff for . . . :mrgreen:

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