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 Post subject: Re: “Million Casualty Lie,” ...
PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 2:57 pm 
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NefariousKoel wrote:
Some leaders of the Japanese military junta didn't want to surrender.

There was even a plot to take the Emperor prisoner, and use him as a hand puppet in order to continue the war until the Japanese were utterly destroyed.

All because of the false and extremely over-hyped shogun honor mythology that the Japanese nationalists had been pushing since the late 19th century. It was pushed so hard that it still exists, to some extent, today. That propaganda nearly wiped them out in WW2, and well may have if more practical and survival oriented heads hadn't prevailed.


It very much lives in them to this day, not in everyone but it is still popular as hell.

Just look up kendo. They have all the die hard stuff about tradition, authority etc. in there, stuff that doesn't even make sense but you still do it in order to fit in and please the institution overseen by the senseis.

There's something about their culture, this unwavering respect for tradition and sticking to old ways and enormous mythology.

And the disease has spread even to Western popular culture. Just ask people what they think of samurais and katanas and you'll get a diluted idea of how they are.

It's a fricking sabre and not even a good one at that. It's heart is of soft steel, it bends in contact if it isn't actually broken in two. It has no crossguard to speak of, minimal hand protection and isn't any sharper than anything made in Europe. Europeans in fact have 1,000 years of *good* sword making experience on Japanese but they just ignore this. Japanese didn't in their entire history manage to invent a way to even properly heat iron enough in steel making process, they were always a hundred or two hundred degrees shy of the required temps.

Sigh.

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 Post subject: Re: “Million Casualty Lie,” ...
PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 12:32 am 
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Kameolontti wrote:

There's something about their culture, this unwavering respect for tradition and sticking to old ways and enormous mythology.

And the disease has spread even to Western popular culture. Just ask people what they think of samurais and katanas and you'll get a diluted idea of how they are.




I think their severe devotion to their mythologized history is due to their long stretch of past isolationism contrasting with it's sudden reversal.

After Japan's very abrupt change from isolationism, to adopting many western standards of all kinds, they quickly turned to inflating samurai honor, etc, in order to help socially balance the drastic social change.

It's very apparent, to anyone reading a bit about the shit that happened during their famous & long samurai civil war, Sengoku Jidai, would see issues with the modern portrayal of honor, and such a thing as it was in actual practice. The modern version, which was concocted after the samurai were no more, and long after they had been conducting war campaigns is a modern construct.

The samurai were very cutthroat. In most ways just like other feudal lords in other areas of the world.

It's easy to see the parallels with western European knighthood. Right after they became obsolete, stories were created to make them morally and honorably larger than they actually were. Same happened in Japan, only hundreds of years later and to a much closer, more populated & literate world, and a far greater dissemination of such lore within it.

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 Post subject: Re: “Million Casualty Lie,” ...
PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 4:09 am 
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NefariousKoel wrote:
Kameolontti wrote:

There's something about their culture, this unwavering respect for tradition and sticking to old ways and enormous mythology.

And the disease has spread even to Western popular culture. Just ask people what they think of samurais and katanas and you'll get a diluted idea of how they are.




I think their severe devotion to their mythologized history is due to their long stretch of past isolationism contrasting with it's sudden reversal.

After Japan's very abrupt change from isolationism, to adopting many western standards of all kinds, they quickly turned to inflating samurai honor, etc, in order to help socially balance the drastic social change.

It's very apparent, to anyone reading a bit about the shit that happened during their famous & long samurai civil war, Sengoku Jidai, would see issues with the modern portrayal of honor, and such a thing as it was in actual practice. The modern version, which was concocted after the samurai were no more, and long after they had been conducting war campaigns is a modern construct.

The samurai were very cutthroat. In most ways just like other feudal lords in other areas of the world.

It's easy to see the parallels with western European knighthood. Right after they became obsolete, stories were created to make them morally and honorably larger than they actually were. Same happened in Japan, only hundreds of years later and to a much closer, more populated & literate world, and a far greater dissemination of such lore within it.


In Japan, the national myths and ethos was forged in 19th century as a propaganda tool to be wielded by Imperial Japan to ensure 100% compliance and support for military and to ensure their soldiers were motivated.
They achieved those goals. Their people were ready to die for the emperor and butcher their enemies in the most sadistic ways. They were ready to starve to death under nuclear attacks if their emperor so wished.


In 19th century Europe similar things emerged. Long after knights were gone you had these freshly emerging nation states; Germany, France and a whole bunch of ethnic groups without their countries. The upper classes who always monopolize high culture crafted the myths and legends.

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