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 Post subject: “Million Casualty Lie,” ...
PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 9:01 pm 
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History Weekend: Revisiting “Atomic Diplomacy,” the “Million Casualty Lie,” and Casualty Planning for the Invasion of Japan

Posted by Trent Telenko on October 13th, 2017 (All posts by Trent Telenko)

When I wrote my Sept 2nd column “Happy VJ-Day, Plus 72 Years,” last month, it was with the intent to show a couple of things. First, that “Atomic Diplomacy” — the belief that USA dropped the Atomic Bomb on Japan to intimidate the Soviet Union at the beginning of the Cold War — was a Leftist identity based belief system unsupported by the real historical record. And second, that it’s genesis was due to the lies and cover up of those lies by a generation of high level US national security bureaucrats like Paul Nitze and WW2 generation flag rank politicians for decades after World War II.

This column will expand on that second point by revisiting “Atomic Diplomacy,” the “Million Casualty Lie” founding myth that it pushed and recent research finds by research partner Ryan Crierie and I had on the War Department casualty planning for the Invasion of Japan.

In addition to the lies of Paul Nitze so well laid out by Paul Newman’s various books, which my last VJ-Day column dealt with, there was in fact a great deal of lying about the American casualties and the Atomic bomb. It was a “Million Casualty Lie,” but the Atomic Diplomacy Historical Revisionists got the lie vector 180 degrees wrong.

The Post War American military, and General Marshall in particular, was in fact hiding a much bigger casualty number for the conquest of Japan and the destruction of the Imperial Japanese military. And they had been hiding it from public view since July 1944.

The following will show that the War Department planning process is where these lies were born during the war, where these institutional lies were spread from and the how/why/who kept these lies going in the decades afterwards.
(Continued)
http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/55915.html#more-55915
So they were lying. Read on and see why.

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 Post subject: Re: “Million Casualty Lie,” ...
PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 3:13 am 
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So 2.3 million American service personnel casualties saved is what those ~225,000 lives extinguished at Nagasaki and Hiroshima probably paid for? Interesting. Not surprising.

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 Post subject: Re: “Million Casualty Lie,” ...
PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 5:38 am 
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Anthropoid wrote:
So 2.3 million American service personnel casualties saved is what those ~225,000 lives extinguished at Nagasaki and Hiroshima probably paid for? Interesting. Not surprising.
The two bombings, which killed at least 129,000 people, remain the only use of nuclear weapons for warfare in history.

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 Post subject: Re: “Million Casualty Lie,” ...
PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 11:32 am 
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Anthropoid wrote:
So 2.3 million American service personnel casualties saved is what those ~225,000 lives extinguished at Nagasaki and Hiroshima probably paid for? Interesting. Not surprising.


There's nothing new about this information to me, I've been familiar with these figures for years. It's another matter that they're not that well known public information
- the media isn't terribly interested in educating the public
- a lot of commies and anti-Americans are spreading misinformation


Japanese would have gladly sacrificed much of their entire population for a chance to maximize American casualties; it was their honorbound duty for their God Emperor and in addition to that many expected that they'd be enslaved and face horrific atrocities - so dying while fighting back seemed reasonable, at least in the light of their own propaganda and by how they had treated everyone else they had conquered. The Rapists of Nanking, these butcherers, they were expecting the hammer come down hard on them.

The entire nation was literally mobilized for suicidal defense. Russians thought they had it bad, Japanese were giving young pre-teen children bamboo spears and drilling them for spear charge. I don't know what kind of impact it would have had on US machinegunners to mow down thousands of children armed with spears.

And those that insist Japan was on the verge of surrender fail to understand this.

An entire Japanese city was wiped off the face of the Earth with it's inhabitants with impunity. Yet their God Emperor stood unflinching ready to sacrifice more of his people. Yet his people were ready to die.

When a second city was wiped out again with impunity it became apparent to their leadership that their last stand was not going to be glorious; their people were simply going to be wiped off the face of the Earth into extinction and this would not be at the cost of millions or even hundreds of thousands of American lives.

They saw that Americans had come up with a way to obliterate Japanese people with impunity.

In face of complete one sided annihilation they finally saw the madness of their strategy. Even complete humiliation and atrocities and enslavement - if they were coming - were still better than simply being blown apart by atomic fire without any way to fight back. At least their people might stand a chance to survive.


And then the part that all anti-Americans eagerly skip - how the Americans fed the starving Japanese and helped them rebuild their country without any sense of spite or vengeance. These people had carved an empire by rape, butchery and sadism. They weren't invaded - they thought they could destroy US fleet and force US into concessions and a peace with their own terms while getting away with their crimes.

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They got off lightly.

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 Post subject: Re: “Million Casualty Lie,” ...
PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 2:22 pm 
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Your post deserves a +rep Kameo.

Still blocked.

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 Post subject: Re: “Million Casualty Lie,” ...
PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 3:18 pm 
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I'm blocked too!

One thing I don't quite get: why did the use of a single aircraft single bomb attack on Hiroshima and Nagasaki convince them to surrender, when multiple aircraft firebombing attacks (with hundreds of aircraft and thousands or tens of thousands of bombs) which had achieved largely the same effects fail to do the trick?

I don't know the history in detail, but a quick wiki search on "firebombing tokyo" turns up: Operation Meetinghouse

Quote:
The Bombing of Tokyo (東京大空襲 Tōkyōdaikūshū) often refers to a series of firebombing air raids by the United States Army Air Forces during the Pacific campaigns of World War II. On the night of 9–10 March 1945, Operation Meetinghouse was conducted and is regarded as the single most destructive bombing raid in human history.[1] 16 square miles (41 km2) of central Tokyo was annihilated, over 1 million were made homeless with an estimated 100,000 civilian deaths. The Japanese later called this event Night of the Black Snow.[citation needed]
The US first mounted a seaborne, small-scale air raid on Tokyo in April 1942. Strategic bombing and urban area bombing began in 1944 after the long-range B-29 Superfortress bomber entered service, first deployed from China and thereafter the Mariana Islands. B-29 raids from those islands began on 17 November 1944, and lasted until 15 August 1945, the day of Japanese surrender.


It is my understanding that, by 1945, Japan had little capacity to resist air attacks, particularly high altitude attacks. Several major Japanese cities had already been caused large proportions of firebombing damage; as far as I understand it, it was already something like many hundreds of thousands dead, millions injured, millions made homeless, and an increasing logistical and human services burden from these major firebombing air raids, and all for the cost of a handful of U.S. aircraft and crews. There was essentially nothing to prevent the U.S. from continuing this campaign of firebombing literally to the point of extinguishing Japanese civilization completely. This writing would it seems, have already been quite blatantly ON THE WALL by March 1945 I would have thought, but apparently not.

The sum total of devastation from the conventional bombing of 1944-45 would seem to be an order of magnitude or more than that of those two atomic bombing attacks. Yet it was the second atom bomb that finally convinced them that resistance was futile. I just don't get that.

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 Post subject: Re: “Million Casualty Lie,” ...
PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 5:41 am 
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Anthropoid wrote:
I'm blocked too!

One thing I don't quite get: why did the use of a single aircraft single bomb attack on Hiroshima and Nagasaki convince them to surrender, when multiple aircraft firebombing attacks (with hundreds of aircraft and thousands or tens of thousands of bombs) which had achieved largely the same effects fail to do the trick?

I don't know the history in detail, but a quick wiki search on "firebombing tokyo" turns up: Operation Meetinghouse

Quote:
The Bombing of Tokyo (東京大空襲 Tōkyōdaikūshū) often refers to a series of firebombing air raids by the United States Army Air Forces during the Pacific campaigns of World War II. On the night of 9–10 March 1945, Operation Meetinghouse was conducted and is regarded as the single most destructive bombing raid in human history.[1] 16 square miles (41 km2) of central Tokyo was annihilated, over 1 million were made homeless with an estimated 100,000 civilian deaths. The Japanese later called this event Night of the Black Snow.[citation needed]
The US first mounted a seaborne, small-scale air raid on Tokyo in April 1942. Strategic bombing and urban area bombing began in 1944 after the long-range B-29 Superfortress bomber entered service, first deployed from China and thereafter the Mariana Islands. B-29 raids from those islands began on 17 November 1944, and lasted until 15 August 1945, the day of Japanese surrender.


It is my understanding that, by 1945, Japan had little capacity to resist air attacks, particularly high altitude attacks. Several major Japanese cities had already been caused large proportions of firebombing damage; as far as I understand it, it was already something like many hundreds of thousands dead, millions injured, millions made homeless, and an increasing logistical and human services burden from these major firebombing air raids, and all for the cost of a handful of U.S. aircraft and crews. There was essentially nothing to prevent the U.S. from continuing this campaign of firebombing literally to the point of extinguishing Japanese civilization completely. This writing would it seems, have already been quite blatantly ON THE WALL by March 1945 I would have thought, but apparently not.

The sum total of devastation from the conventional bombing of 1944-45 would seem to be an order of magnitude or more than that of those two atomic bombing attacks. Yet it was the second atom bomb that finally convinced them that resistance was futile. I just don't get that.


In fact the Air Forces commanders weren't that impressed by the 21kt yield of Fat Man for instance. The bomb was equivalent to 21,000 tonnes of TNT, they pointed out that it was dwarfed by the amount of ordnance they were dropping through the great raids.

I think it was a psychological effect above all, on the leadership. Also, they saw that a large number of conventional ordnance while causing more devastation statistically they could dig in and stuff, their army could still fight back for quite some time under such pressure, they knew their people were starving and dying but they also knew the starving people could to some minimal degree be used to fight back the invasion.

They saw what Americans were doing but they saw it took them great effort.

Then a lone bomber appears, flying high and alone, like a recon. Not serious enough of a threat to scramble fighters against. Moments later all comms are lost and a little later nearby units report that the city has been destroyed. And it happens again.

At that time, in their shoes, reports of single bomber attacking and cities vanishing as a small Sun is lit on them, it must have shocked them beyond what conventional weapons could. In their shoes there was no telling if these were just early tests and how many such attacks would be coming.

And while many have entertained the theory of "they bluffed" - this was not the case. In the following years Japan would have been hit with several dozen nuclear bombs and the production of bombs was just going to keep ramping up from "46 onwards to a point where they'd get hit by a bomb weekly while the bombs themselves kept growing bigger.

Literally, there would only be a few million Japanese left in the world if they had gone full Third Reich.

And just maybe the Emperor was worried that one of those bombs was going to hit his command complex. He was pleasantly surprised to find out that all those millions who died and butchered in his name were quickly forgotten, he was allowed to stay as an cultural icon for his people, still commanded respect from so many and never had to answer for any of his crimes against humanity. He knew he or his followers could one day just rewrite the history books and then they'd really be off the hook.

I don't know if the God Emperor was given the terms of the peace beforehand through unofficial channels. As in, what would happen after peace, that he'd get away with it all.

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 Post subject: Re: “Million Casualty Lie,” ...
PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 12:04 pm 
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Yep. That seems like a reasonable explanation.

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 Post subject: Re: “Million Casualty Lie,” ...
PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 1:49 pm 
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Anthropoid wrote:
Yep. That seems like a reasonable explanation.


Hard to know. In fact I never seem to have thought about it much - I always took it for granted that you sort of surrender when your cities start to get taken out with nuclear attacks or at least give it some serious thought after each city.

Now I'm interested in seeing some reliable sources on the matter, especially the last weeks and days of war from the eyes of Hitler That Got Away and his staff of sadists.

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 Post subject: Re: “Million Casualty Lie,” ...
PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 2:33 pm 
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Some leaders of the Japanese military junta didn't want to surrender.

There was even a plot to take the Emperor prisoner, and use him as a hand puppet in order to continue the war until the Japanese were utterly destroyed.

All because of the false and extremely over-hyped shogun honor mythology that the Japanese nationalists had been pushing since the late 19th century. It was pushed so hard that it still exists, to some extent, today. That propaganda nearly wiped them out in WW2, and well may have if more practical and survival oriented heads hadn't prevailed.

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