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 Post subject: Re: Military stuff ... past and present.
PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 12:45 pm 
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Not sure I buy that. IMO if the wallies had good intel on AH's precise location in a vulnerable place you can bet they'd have taken him out. Killing Hitler would have produced a much greater likelihood of negotiated peace in 1944.

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 Post subject: Re: Military stuff ... past and present.
PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 1:32 pm 
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Hitler was the force of nature against any kind of surrender. He kept thinking that building some 15000 mm supercannon and firing a 100 ton round into London would force British to surrender and bring Americans to negotiation table with favorable terms.

The primary reason why the conspirators wanted to assassinate Hitler was because they felt they could not force him locked up in an asylum as deranged individual. They felt that the only way to remove him from leadership was to assassinate him, too many loyalist and all. The man had his supporters, die hard zealots who literally died for him and he had filled the upper echelons with those types as well where others felt they had a duty to their office and country.

If they had assassinated him they hoped that they'd remove the primary obstacle for peace - they hoped to be able to negotiate some form of surrender or peace that perhaps wasn't unconditional and which perhaps would allow them to resist the Russians.

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 Post subject: Re: Military stuff ... past and present.
PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 1:42 pm 
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Anthropoid wrote:
...simply because he was the best thing the allies had going.


Adolf Hitler - the best allied general. Put Patton to shame.


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 Post subject: Re: Military stuff ... past and present.
PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 1:44 pm 
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wulfir wrote:
Anthropoid wrote:
...simply because he was the best thing the allies had going.


Adolf Hitler - the best allied general. Put Patton to shame.


Even if it isn't EXACTLY true, it is hard to completely dismiss the notion, eh!?

Plus it is just damn fun to say out loud: "Hitler was a moron of epic proportions."

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 Post subject: Re: Military stuff ... past and present.
PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 2:06 pm 
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Anthropoid wrote:
wulfir wrote:
Even if it isn't EXACTLY true, it is hard to completely dismiss the notion, eh!?

Plus it is just damn fun to say out loud: "Hitler was a moron of epic proportions."


I won't argue that - when it came to grand strategy and leading a war effort he was completely overwhelmed by his own retarded notions such as his obsession in the supposed weakness of his enemies, the strength in his country's purity etc.

The Japanese suffered from the same thing really - thinking that lots of walliooh spilitt will manifest as torpedoes and artillery shells that tear apart the opposition.

Sure, it worked against the French - a mighty army completely collapsed when their bluff was called.

"Shiit, never guessed they would call it! In hindsight it might've been a great idea to actually back it up while we had the chance!"

Against everyone else it failed and in case of Italy they didn't even get that far.


Soviets too had that same mental disease. "We're right, we're big, we will prevail with our superior morals and if that won't help them we'll slug it out with our sheer numbers!"

Soviets, Japanese and Nazis - they all could deliver a fair share of fanatical riflemen. Nazis and Soviets could actually complement the riflemen with good fighters and tanks. Japan spent all their steel on two ships that didn't make any sense and they never learnt to make a good prop engine either and worked around it by building their shit from combustible and weak but materials, these weaknesses were offset by the inherent explosiveness of the material chosen - there was a chance that the combustibility or wing tearing itself off would not be an issue if the whole thing simply exploded as it was hit.

Soviets and Nazis deserved each other. Americans learnt everything there is to know about stopping a zombie rush. I can't fathom why Americans fear zombies these days - Japanese ran faster, were smaller targets and they used guns and artillery. Once you've beat Imperial Japan in war zombies are a Sunday picnic.

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 Post subject: Re: Military stuff ... past and present.
PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 2:22 pm 
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Kameolontti wrote:
Anthropoid wrote:
Even if it isn't EXACTLY true, it is hard to completely dismiss the notion, eh!?

Plus it is just damn fun to say out loud: "Hitler was a moron of epic proportions."


I won't argue that - when it came to grand strategy and leading a war effort he was completely overwhelmed by his own retarded notions such as his obsession in the supposed weakness of his enemies, the strength in his country's purity etc.

The Japanese suffered from the same thing really - thinking that lots of walliooh spilitt will manifest as torpedoes and artillery shells that tear apart the opposition.

Sure, it worked against the French - a mighty army completely collapsed when their bluff was called.

"Shiit, never guessed they would call it! In hindsight it might've been a great idea to actually back it up while we had the chance!"

Against everyone else it failed and in case of Italy they didn't even get that far.


Soviets too had that same mental disease. "We're right, we're big, we will prevail with our superior morals and if that won't help them we'll slug it out with our sheer numbers!"

Soviets, Japanese and Nazis - they all could deliver a fair share of fanatical riflemen. Nazis and Soviets could actually complement the riflemen with good fighters and tanks. Japan spent all their steel on two ships that didn't make any sense and they never learnt to make a good prop engine either and worked around it by building their shit from combustible and weak but materials, these weaknesses were offset by the inherent explosiveness of the material chosen - there was a chance that the combustibility or wing tearing itself off would not be an issue if the whole thing simply exploded as it was hit.

Soviets and Nazis deserved each other. Americans learnt everything there is to know about stopping a zombie rush. I can't fathom why Americans fear zombies these days - Japanese ran faster, were smaller targets and they used guns and artillery. Once you've beat Imperial Japan in war zombies are a Sunday picnic.


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 Post subject: Re: Military stuff ... past and present.
PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 2:55 pm 
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Got him for you anthro.

Quote:
I can't fathom why Americans fear zombies these days -


Well, it's a bit off topic, but zombies have always been a metaphor. So it's good to be properly armed against zombies, because under the wrong circumstances zombies won't actually be dead, stupid, and slow-moving. ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Military stuff ... past and present.
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 3:17 am 
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mdiehl wrote:
Got him for you anthro.

Quote:
I can't fathom why Americans fear zombies these days -


Well, it's a bit off topic, but zombies have always been a metaphor. So it's good to be properly armed against zombies, because under the wrong circumstances zombies won't actually be dead, stupid, and slow-moving. ;)


Quite.

When your nation prepares to fight against full scale Red Army invasion under circumstances where the enemy's Aerospace Forces have more standing servicemen than the size of your reserves...

...it makes the zombie films seem ridiculously stupid having always worked from the premise that we'll get carpet bombed by massive barrage of thermobarics while assassin squads are charging officers' homes with SMGs and the water supplies and all infrastructure is blown out and the rearguard are facing armored spearhead with more tanks than the rearguard has men.

The communist zombie horde metaphor is not lost on me.

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 Post subject: Re: Military stuff ... past and present.
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 2:31 pm 
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Kinda like this guys channel


My response to that video
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I would suggest a completely alternative set of paths down which the U.S. military should explore so as to avert the catastrophes like the recent Iraq and Afghanistan campaigns.

The primary reason for the failure of these campaigns were: (1) Failed pro-intervention public relations, or "propaganda" if you will. (2) Complete failure to articulate theatre and operational level war fighting doctrine with the specific strengths/weaknesses and opportunities/constraints of the specific contexts in which these conflicts took place. These contexts include everything from the built environment, economics, population, culture, language and religion.

Your typical military mind, even today, will have little comprehension of what I just referred to with point (2) and only a dismissive appraisal of (1). Nonetheless, there was a half-hearted effort to address the issues I've attempted to capture broadly with point number 2, and this took the form of the "Human Terrain Systems" initiative.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Terrain_System

The fact that HTS was lambasted by anthropologists is perhaps part of the problem but my point is that it BEHOOVES the military to convince the social sciences academic community that they have shared interests and that they must build mutual rapport and cooperation. This leads back to point (1), regarding war not simply as a technical enterprise, in which the wealthy disinterested nation with the most advanced tech shall inevitably win. War is politics expanded, and it is by its nature a collective enterprise. It is pursued most effectively when a critical mass of a society are lending their support and assistance, and ideally when a large majority of a society are "on board."

The failure of the U.S. military and the U.S. government to recognize the need to nurture homeland support for any and every military venture it engages in is, in sum, the greatest weakness, and spending billions on new rockets and bombs will do NOTHING to address this longstanding weakness which has led to catastrophe and failure repeatedly over the past ~70 years.

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 Post subject: Re: Military stuff ... past and present.
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 3:10 pm 
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Hmm. Sugarcoating military operations with better propaganda is not the correct approach, and it seems like that is the proposed solution. The correct solution is for the US to ONLY engage in military operations when it is clear that the sovereignty of the US is potentially at stake. The reason why the public substantially disavows operations after a few years is that it usually takes several years for the public to have enough facts to recognize that the operation was not based on any compelling threat to American sovereignty.

Then it becomes the usual question... "who benefits from this war..." with the usual answer "a few very wealthy people, and the rent-seeking politicians and think tank 'experts' with a substantial gain (usually financial) to be had from war."

The United States was massively the beneficiary of isolationism during WW1 and WW2. Globalist asshats and their malign enablers somehow managed to create a baloney history in which the US staying away from military engagements overseas was a bad thing. Yet any clear, level-headed analysis of the facts shows several things:

1. That the US avoided severe adverse consequences that would have attended participation in WW1 starting in 1914. By waiting until 1918, the US was in a position to make a difference, rather than to squander blood and treasure making some kind of symbolic gesture. Pershing held out against French and English demands to subordinate the entire 1m+ and growing USAEF in 1918 because he knew that American lives would be squandered in pursuit of symbolic gestures if they were primarily commanded by French or English generals.

2. That the US avoided similar adverse consequences by remaining out of WW2 until December 1941.

3. That the US economy benefited from the US effort to avoid involvement in WW1 and WW2 for a variety of reasons. Not the least of these is the clear economic suicide committed by Italy and Japan in the years leading up to the war. In both instances the economies were substantially wrecked before the USA entered the war, and both nations were committed indeed trapped into the production of mediocre (or worse) equipment for the duration. And Germany was about 6 months behind in ruining its economy those two.

4. That post WW2, US deficit spending in service to power projection overseas has created a massive debt.

5. That "allies" defended by the USA from 1948 to present (with two or three exceptions) have been AINOs.... Allies In Name Only... unwilling to support the USA militarily or even diplomatically. AND...

6. The same "allies" have substantially waged economic warfare against the USA to the ruin of American middle class... who are the very people whose lives are spent whenever Europe or Asia need to be rescued from themselves or each other.

In sum: MILITARY ISOLATIONISM HAS ALWAYS BEEN VERY GOOD FOR MOST AMERICANS AND MILITARY GLOBALISM HAS ALWAYS BEEN VERY BAD FOR MOST AMERICANS.

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Last edited by mdiehl on Wed May 16, 2018 3:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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