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 Post subject: Re: Military stuff ... past and present.
PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 7:55 pm 
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Brusilov was the real deal.

Even despite the many Russian issues during the period of his famous offensive.

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 Post subject: Re: Military stuff ... past and present.
PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 3:19 am 
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Russia was knocked out of war. That was FANTASTIC for the peoples imprisoned in Russian Empire, prison of the peoples. ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Military stuff ... past and present.
PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 6:11 am 
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nero wrote:
Russia was knocked out of war. That was FANTASTIC for the peoples imprisoned in Russian Empire, prison of the peoples. ;)
And then 70 years of Communism, how many died under USSR communism compared to the Tzar?

How fantastic was that?

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 Post subject: Re: Military stuff ... past and present.
PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 6:36 am 
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abradley wrote:
nero wrote:
Russia was knocked out of war. That was FANTASTIC for the peoples imprisoned in Russian Empire, prison of the peoples. ;)
And then 70 years of Communism, how many died under USSR communism compared to the Tzar?

How fantastic was that?

Where is communism now? ;)

Finland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania and Poland are all independent countries.

The other thing was that those countries were given to Stalin after WWII. Thank you very much, liberators. :twisted:

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 Post subject: Re: Military stuff ... past and present.
PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 9:24 am 
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nero wrote:
Where is communism now? ;)

Finland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania and Poland are all independent countries.

The other thing was that those countries were given to Stalin after WWII. Thank you very much, liberators. :twisted:


You did notice those ~15+ million Red military troops didn't you? http://www.armchairgeneral.com/forums/s ... p?t=135636

The sum total of ALL U.S., British, French and other non-Soviet allied forces probably was comparable in totals, but those troops were scattered across both theaters as well as back at home. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demobiliz ... rld_War_II

Moreover, they wanted to GO home, as did the public.

In theory, I can entertain the idea that it "might have been a good idea" for the Western allies to have put more pressure on the Soviets than they did, perhaps even to PLAN on a shooting war with the Soviets in Central Europe within a couple of years. But the implication that you seem to be suggesting, that Eastern Europe and the Baltics were abandoned or betrayed by the Western allies seems foolish and petty. Hard to "abandon" a country liberated from the Nazis when it was ALREADY occupied by your "ally" and well inside his lines. The West never had any god damned opportunity to liberate, much less betray Eastern Europe :lol:

Everyone knows--and I think most everyone KNEW at the time--that the Soviet alliance with the other allies was strictly a matter of convenience. But Westerners, well Yanks and Brits anyway, are generally averse to changing sides at the drop of a hat. I cannot escape the strong suspicion that an important part of Western inertia when it came to responding sternly to USSR immediately post-VE Day had to do with this ethos: wait and see how they behave now that the war is over, give them a chance to prove to be a decent sort . . . Yes it was a stupid mindset, but it is the exact SAME mindset that has allowed large segments of the European public to be beguiled into the "let the refugees in" argument.

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 Post subject: Re: Military stuff ... past and present.
PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 5:42 pm 
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Poland, Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia, as anything resembling autonomous, democratic nations, were wholly artifices of the end of WW1. The idea that the USA was supposed to be the guarantor of European order in 1945, as envisaged by the Treaty of Versailles after the Entente completely ignored the USA in the crafting of that treaty, is amusing for its brazen stupidity.

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 Post subject: Re: Military stuff ... past and present.
PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 5:47 pm 
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mdiehl wrote:
Poland, Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia, as anything resembling independent, autonomous, democratic nations, were wholly artifices of the end of WW1. The idea that the USA was supposed to be the guarantor of European order as envisaged by the Treaty of Versailles after the Entente completely ignored the USA in the crafting of that treaty, is amusing for its brazen stupidity.

Wasn't Wilson at Versailles? :roll:

And giving Stalin what he had dealt with Hitler is also dubious, legally.

But you are so full of your own shit. Never mind.

I hope there is zoo or circus to send you for public entertainment. :lol:

Do you like pandas?

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Nah, Lumi and Pyry wouldn't like you. Nobody likes.

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 Post subject: Re: Military stuff ... past and present.
PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 6:49 pm 
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Clemenceau basically rejected the Wilson's 14 points document, which document was widely regarded as a way to avoid future wars in western Europe. The Treaty of Versailles was not based on nor did it substantially include portions of the 14 points.

The failure of the Treaty of Versailles and the general failure to prevent the rise of the Third Reich falls primarily in the lap of France and, to a lesser extent, other western European nations whose sole objective in the long run was to continue the Great Game to their own advantage, to minimize US political influence in Europe, and to promote the expansion of their own empires.

Those facts are among the many reasons that the general European habit of blaming the United States for the post-war consequences of every European war are insipid.

First and foremost, continental Europeans are, as a matter of culture, habit, and philisophy, irresponsible. Everything bad that happens to a continental European is always someone else's fault.

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 Post subject: Re: Military stuff ... past and present.
PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 7:16 pm 
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mdiehl wrote:
Clemenceau basically rejected the Wilson's 14 points document, which document was widely regarded as a way to avoid future wars in western Europe. The Treaty of Versailles was not based on nor did it substantially include portions of the 14 points.

The failure of the Treaty of Versailles and the general failure to prevent the rise of the Third Reich falls primarily in the lap of France and, to a lesser extent, other western European nations whose sole objective in the long run was to continue the Great Game to their own advantage, to minimize US political influence in Europe, and to promote the expansion of their own empires.

Those facts are among the many reasons that the general European habit of blaming the United States for the post-war consequences of every European war are insipid.

First and foremost, continental Europeans are, as a matter of culture, habit, and philisophy, irresponsible. Everything bad that happens to a continental European is always someone else's fault.

The most irresponsible thing of Europeans was to colonize America. Better left to the injuns.

A big mistake, like inventing agriculture. Actually colonizing America was bigger mistake, just because with farming we got beer.

The other question was it worth it. In some places in Czech Republic with good pivo and in good company, I have to admit so. ;)

Na zdraví, hölkyn kölkyn, kippis.

PS. And I return your old used one, Mildred: Image

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 Post subject: Re: Military stuff ... past and present.
PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 8:14 pm 
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Ha! SO MUCH easier that way :)

Now then . . . abrad, Nef, LaPalice, you were saying something?

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