maddogdrivethru.net

Open all night
It is currently Tue Dec 11, 2018 1:55 am

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Forum rules


It's the Gulag of Fun



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 700 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 ... 70  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Military stuff ... past and present.
PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2016 1:18 pm 
Offline
Sergeant Major

Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 4:43 pm
Posts: 16068
Reputation points: 720
Kameolontti wrote:
...
Do you think the Vikings who slaughtered the defenseless monks at Lindisfarne were traumatized by the smell of blood and sweat?
...

That was holy war against the new religion.

OTOH have noticed the connection of Viking Valhalla and Muslim paradise, where only warriors killed in battle can enter, and the warriors can enjoy innumerable pleasures. :lol:

Vikings were pacified by the Christian religion and state power. :(

Hate and Fear.

_________________
The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt

Mit der Dummheit kämpfen selbst Götter vergebens.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Military stuff ... past and present.
PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2016 9:50 am 
Offline
Sergeant Major
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2008 9:50 pm
Posts: 31604
Location: West coast of the east coast
Reputation points: 20000
nero wrote:
Kameolontti wrote:
...
Do you think the Vikings who slaughtered the defenseless monks at Lindisfarne were traumatized by the smell of blood and sweat?
...

That was holy war against the new religion.

OTOH have noticed the connection of Viking Valhalla and Muslim paradise, where only warriors killed in battle can enter, and the warriors can enjoy innumerable pleasures. :lol:

Vikings were pacified by the Christian religion and state power. :(

Hate and Fear.



I think that your theory about Lindisfarne being a religious holy war is off base.
The Vikings were plunderers, and the monastery at Lindisfarne was a ripe target.

_________________
The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public’s money.
- misattributed to Alexis De Tocqueville

No representations made as to the accuracy of info in posted news articles or links


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Military stuff ... past and present.
PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2016 7:14 am 
Offline
His Most Gracious Majesty, Commie of the Year
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 28, 2009 12:44 pm
Posts: 7880
Reputation points: 17300
nero wrote:
Kameolontti wrote:
...
Do you think the Vikings who slaughtered the defenseless monks at Lindisfarne were traumatized by the smell of blood and sweat?
...

That was holy war against the new religion.

OTOH have noticed the connection of Viking Valhalla and Muslim paradise, where only warriors killed in battle can enter, and the warriors can enjoy innumerable pleasures. :lol:

Vikings were pacified by the Christian religion and state power. :(

Hate and Fear.



That is if you buy all the bullshit about Valhalla and so that was an idealization and idolization of what "being a Viking" was in fact true and not mere invention of Snorri Sturluson in the way that Kalevala never existed but is merely the creation of Elias Lönnrot which uses some correct poems but is largely fictitious independent creation.

Other similar misunderstood concepts include Bushido. Bushido was invented in 19th century by a Japanese Inazo Nitobe who personally was the first to acknowledge that he knew jack shit about Japanese history or culture as he was always in contact with Christians, was a Christian and spoke English better than Japanese. He merely wanted to make his home country look good in the eyes of the Westerners and published the book Bushido: The Soul of Japan (aka Bushido: The Way of Total Bullshit).

He only published it in English and took his sweet time to translate it to Japanese because he said - he was afraid the Japanese would be angry with him. And angry was an understatement in this case - they were furious.
https://www.tofugu.com/japan/bushido/

Or Chivalry? The modern idea of Chivalry was clearly an invention of aristocratic pansy boys of Age of Romanticism wanted to think that their forefathers "were the real deal", "tough but just", "tough but refined" etc. because they themselves were into sniffing flowers and poetry and painting and such but they still valued strength and wanted to think of themselves as almost as strong as their tough forefathers who originally earned their aristocratic status on the battlefields, as if.

The same way we can see there was an idealization by Snorri who writes as if the Valhalla is actually in the likeness of his own grand hall in which he himself held many feasts - so in a way the best warriors and the best of their people would also get a seat in his table? If anything the writing he made as The Big Man of Iceland was above all a political tool to further his own legend as The Man.

That aside
http://norse-mythology.org/cosmology/valhalla/
Valhalla was no place of fucking maidens nor was it paradise. It wasn't even originally a part of their 'heaven'. It was just Odin's personal hall where he assembled brave warriors for his own army with which he was going to face Fenrir and Ragnarok - and according to the prophecy he would indeed not do well.

Quote:
Odin took a great deal of time and care selecting the ablest human warriors to join him in the final battle against the world-devouring giants. But, deep down, they knew that all of their desperate actions were in vain.


Quote:
But, like the heroes of a Greek tragedy, the gods fought valiantly to the end. Thor and the sea serpent Jormungand slew each other, as did Surt and the god Freyr, and likewise Heimdall and Loki. Odin and Tyr both fell to Fenrir (also called “Garmr” in some texts), who was then killed by Vidar, Odin’s son and avenger.


This is very different to the "virgin elevator" of just grabbing a rifle and dying as fast as you can to get a free ride to paradise.

Viking ideal was very different. They fantasized of fighting well and crushing their foes or dying trying so they could be hand picked by Odin to fight in the final battle with him where they get killed along with Odin.

They weren't looking for a way out. If they were looking to get to Valhalla, they were looking to get to fight even more - in the worthiest battle ever, in the Doom of Gods.

And after Cosmos has been destroyed it is created anew and they get to start it all over again - and fight some more.

At least so their ideals are understood by some. Obviously they too could be routed so how seriously they took those stories is under question. There are many records of their bravery but also of reverse.

Some believe that Valhalla was at least to many more of a "the memory of" you when you died - and the goal was to leave a good legacy.

Humanitarians they were not, they had a warrior society, much like continental Europe had a warrior society and Japan had a warrior society and so on. There's a whole period of time spanning hundreds of years when the prevalent form of society seems to be one ruled by military elite until firearms equalize the battlefields.

_________________
Screw you nero


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Military stuff ... past and present.
PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2016 7:21 am 
Offline
His Most Gracious Majesty, Commie of the Year
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 28, 2009 12:44 pm
Posts: 7880
Reputation points: 17300
chijohnaok wrote:
nero wrote:
That was holy war against the new religion.

OTOH have noticed the connection of Viking Valhalla and Muslim paradise, where only warriors killed in battle can enter, and the warriors can enjoy innumerable pleasures. :lol:

Vikings were pacified by the Christian religion and state power. :(

Hate and Fear.



I think that your theory about Lindisfarne being a religious holy war is off base.
The Vikings were plunderers, and the monastery at Lindisfarne was a ripe target.


Indeed we don't have that many sources indicating how religious every day Vikings were. A lot of the information of their society is based on stuff that some Christian leaders wrote hundreds of years after Viking Age.

I'd somehow give a lot more credit to what the actual Vikings said. But like Knights and the Samurai and other warrior elites they didn't exactly spend their days writing down passages of
"I, Olaf, ate some cereals today. Then I took a bath, had sex, then I practiced fighting for 3 hours and cleaned up afterwards. After that I checked my estate and all my slaves. Here is a picture of my house, here is a picture of my dog and here is a picture of my favorite comb and how I put my hair today. Here's a link to my instagram account if you want to check more of my drawings:

Oh, it's already evening as I'm writing this. I'm going to / not going to worship gods because they're important / they're more of a representation of an ideal / just children's stories.

Oh and here's a list of all my friends, their professions, what they make, how much I make and of all the items I own with their pictures"

I suppose they were busy doing other things. As a result we don't know as much of them.

However historians 1000 years from now will be able to reconstruct the entire day of an average person these days from when he woke up, what he ate and the recipe for it to where he went, how long it took, what he used for transport and how the transport was built, etc.

_________________
Screw you nero


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Military stuff ... past and present.
PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2016 8:34 am 
Offline
Sergeant Major

Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 4:43 pm
Posts: 16068
Reputation points: 720
Kameolontti wrote:
nero wrote:
...
That was holy war against the new religion.

OTOH have noticed the connection of Viking Valhalla and Muslim paradise, where only warriors killed in battle can enter, and the warriors can enjoy innumerable pleasures. :lol:

Vikings were pacified by the Christian religion and state power. :(

Hate and Fear.



That is if you buy all the bullshit about Valhalla and so that was an idealization and idolization of what "being a Viking" was in fact true and not mere invention of Snorri Sturluson in the way that Kalevala never existed but is merely the creation of Elias Lönnrot which uses some correct poems but is largely fictitious independent creation.
...

It was never "being a viking", rather "gå i vikingr". Not be something, bot to do something. And in this case that something is what the Vikings did.

That religion thing was speculative joke, not a serious proposal. ;)

Mutta tässä sinulle linkki, jorinaa viikingeistä: http://areena.yle.fi/1-2839324

Kuuntelen näitä, ja muita radiojuttuja Areenasta kun tiskaan tai kokkaan.


Hate and Fear.

_________________
The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt

Mit der Dummheit kämpfen selbst Götter vergebens.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Military stuff ... past and present.
PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2016 9:51 am 
Offline
His Most Gracious Majesty, Commie of the Year
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 28, 2009 12:44 pm
Posts: 7880
Reputation points: 17300
nero wrote:
It was never "being a viking", rather "gå i vikingr". Not be something, bot to do something. And in this case that something is what the Vikings did.

That religion thing was speculative joke, not a serious proposal. ;)

Mutta tässä sinulle linkki, jorinaa viikingeistä: http://areena.yle.fi/1-2839324

Kuuntelen näitä, ja muita radiojuttuja Areenasta kun tiskaan tai kokkaan.


Hate and Fear.



Kiitti linkistä, "arkkitehti ja toimittaja" kuulosti 'lupaavalta' mutta pitääpä kuunnella ennenku tuomittee.

_________________
Screw you nero


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Military stuff ... past and present.
PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2016 10:33 am 
Offline
Sergeant Major

Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 4:43 pm
Posts: 16068
Reputation points: 720
Kameolontti wrote:
nero wrote:
It was never "being a viking", rather "gå i vikingr". Not be something, bot to do something. And in this case that something is what the Vikings did.

That religion thing was speculative joke, not a serious proposal. ;)

Mutta tässä sinulle linkki, jorinaa viikingeistä: http://areena.yle.fi/1-2839324

Kuuntelen näitä, ja muita radiojuttuja Areenasta kun tiskaan tai kokkaan.


Hate and Fear.



Kiitti linkistä, "arkkitehti ja toimittaja" kuulosti 'lupaavalta' mutta pitääpä kuunnella ennenku tuomittee.

Joo, ei se varmaan lopullista tieteen sanaa ole. Historia harvoin on. Ja sitten eivät tiedä että Tanais-virta on Don. Tämän olisin heti osannut sanoa.

Hyvä kuunnella, ja mukaan kannattaa varata kilo suolaa, ;)

Mutta mielenkiintoista.

Hauskoja kuunteluelämyksiä. ;)

_________________
The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt

Mit der Dummheit kämpfen selbst Götter vergebens.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Military stuff ... past and present.
PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2016 3:51 am 
Offline
His Most Gracious Majesty, Commie of the Year
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 28, 2009 12:44 pm
Posts: 7880
Reputation points: 17300
Onhan noita aina hauska kuunnella joka tapauksessa. Joskus mistä vaan voi tulla eteen fatkaa jonka saa myöhemmin tarkistettua oliko/eikö ollut ja sitten taas oppii lisää.

_________________
Screw you nero


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Military stuff ... past and present.
PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2016 7:23 pm 
Offline
buck private
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 20, 2008 8:01 am
Posts: 16312
Reputation points: 13228
Back on subject ;)

How did the German 16th century mercenaries dress and where did the idea for the Papal Guard uniform come from?



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYv4iO9QjCs

_________________
“Political Language… is Designed to Make Lies Sound Truthful… and to Give an Appearance of Solidity to Pure Wind.” — George Orwell


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Military stuff ... past and present.
PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2016 11:03 pm 
Offline
buck private
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 20, 2008 8:01 am
Posts: 16312
Reputation points: 13228

_________________
“Political Language… is Designed to Make Lies Sound Truthful… and to Give an Appearance of Solidity to Pure Wind.” — George Orwell


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 700 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 ... 70  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group