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 Post subject: Re: Military stuff ... past and present.
PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 5:05 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Military stuff ... past and present.
PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 10:56 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Military stuff ... past and present.
PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2017 1:22 pm 
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http://warisboring.com/the-confederacy- ... r-in-1862/

Quote:
The Confederacy Almost Developed a Helicopter in 1862

But the technology wasn’t quite ready for Robert E. Lee’s air cavalry

Image

July 29, 2017 Michael Peck

It’s the third day of the Battle of Gettysburg in July 1863 and Union forces on Cemetery Ridge await the final Confederate assault. But instead of witnessing serried ranks of rebels marching across a mile of open ground into the maws of Yankee cannons, the bluecoat regiments are shocked to hear the thud of rotor blades.

It is the the sound of Confederate general George Pickett’s 13,000-strong division landing behind Union lines.

Is this a neo-Confederate dream? The Red Badge of Courage meets Apocalypse Now?

No, it turns out that a Confederate engineer actually did design a helicopter back in 1862.

William C. Powers was an architectural engineer in Mobile, Alabama. Frustrated by the Union blockade of Mobile and other Southern ports, which prevented the Confederacy from exporting cotton and importing weapons, Powers resolved to devise a way to destroy Union ships.

The Confederate Navy was far too weak to confront the Union fleet, even with a primitive submarine like Hunley. Both the Union and Confederacy had aerial balloons for observation. However, the balloons were neither maneuverable nor had enough lift to carry any real armament.

So, Powers designed a steam-powered maritime strike helicopter to rain bombs down on Union heads. It drew upon many of the ideas of Archimedes and Leonardo da Vinci, according to Tom Paone, a museum specialist in the Aeronautics Department of the National Air and Space Museum in Washington, D.C.

Paone described the helicopter in an article for the museum:

The engine was located in the middle of the craft and used two smokestacks, which can be seen in the drawings. Two Archimedean screws on the sides gave the helicopter forward thrust, similar to how a propeller works on a ship in water, and two mounted vertically in the helicopter gave it lift. A rudder was added to the rear of the craft in order to provide steering.

“I presume from the drawings that it would have had a maximum crew of two,” Paone wrote in an email to War Is Boring. “And presuming the hull is between five and six feet tall, then it would seem to be 20 to 30 feet tall, 20 to 25 feet long, and 10 to 15 feet wide.”

“But these are all very rough estimates,” Paone added.

The helicopter might seem like something that might have come out of a Renaissance workshop, but it featured the advanced construction techniques developed a full century later. Lattice construction, which confers structural strength without adding much weight, was a major feature of the World War II British Wellington bomber.

Though Powers built a small model and then a full-sized mockup, he lacked the resources to produce a working helicopter. His family eventually donated the plans to the museum.

If he had built a Confederate whirlybird, would it have flown?

“I am certain that this craft could not have flown,” Paone told War Is Boring. “The craft was supposed to be powered by a steam engine, and the technology at the time didn’t allow for an engine that was light enough or powerful enough to power the craft.”

“The other issue is that the vertical propeller shafts would not have produced lift,” Paone continued. “If the Archimedean screws were made of a solid material, they would have been far too heavy for the craft. If they were made of some sort of stiffened canvas, it is doubtful that they would have produced any lift.”

Even if the Confederate chopper had staggered into the air, it is unlikely that it could have dropped any bombs powerful enough to do much damage.

Besides being hampered by lack of material, Powers refrained from building a helicopter because of fear that “it would be captured by the Union, mass produced and used to rain destruction on the Confederate armies and cities throughout the South,” Paone wrote.

For those Confederate nostalgists who dream of Robert E. Lee’s air cavalry capturing Washington or Confederate bombers pounding New York, that last point is worth remembering.

The Union won the Civil War because its industrial economy overpowered the largely agricultural Confederacy. Whatever number of helicopters the Confederacy could have built, the Union factories would have churned out more.

So instead of Pickett launching an air-mobile assault behind Cemetery Ridge, Grant’s Army of the Potomac could have bombed Richmond or dropped behind Confederate fortifications at Cold Harbor.

This article originally appeared on April 21, 2014.

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 Post subject: Re: Military stuff ... past and present.
PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2017 1:46 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Military stuff ... past and present.
PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2017 7:15 am 
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Everybody know about fencing tournaments, what about Longswords?:
Quote:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longsword
A longsword (also spelled as long sword or long-sword) is a type of European sword characterized as having a cruciform hilt with a grip for two-handed use (around 16 to 28 cm (6 to 11 in)) and a straight double-edged blade of around 85 to 110 cm (33 to 43 in), [1] The "longsword" type exists in a morphological continuum with the medieval knightly sword and the Renaissance-era Zweihänder. It was prevalent during the late medieval and Renaissance periods (approximately 1350 to 1550), with early and late use reaching into the 13th and 17th centuries.


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 Post subject: Re: Military stuff ... past and present.
PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2017 12:07 pm 
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abradley wrote:
Everybody know about fencing tournaments, what about Longswords?:
Quote:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longsword
A longsword (also spelled as long sword or long-sword) is a type of European sword characterized as having a cruciform hilt with a grip for two-handed use (around 16 to 28 cm (6 to 11 in)) and a straight double-edged blade of around 85 to 110 cm (33 to 43 in), [1] The "longsword" type exists in a morphological continuum with the medieval knightly sword and the Renaissance-era Zweihänder. It was prevalent during the late medieval and Renaissance periods (approximately 1350 to 1550), with early and late use reaching into the 13th and 17th centuries.



He's fast and he's good.

Best? That remains to be seen, Swordfish has been the biggest tournament for Longsword, held in Sweden.

Now there's been a lot of buzz about the Longpoint which also isn't just a tournament but a major event. One of the best Longsword fighters in the world - Kristian Ruokonen praised the event highly.

The event was won by Jake Norwood, Capital KDF, with Kristian Ruokonen from EHMS ending up as second.

Is either of them the best Longsword fighter in the world? That's a tricky question.

We all know in fencing that sparring changes things. We add protective gear, the gloves alone weigh 500g (~1lb) each, the swords aren't sharp so they don't stick to the blade in binds.
Above all, people aren't afraid of getting hit. They certainly don't want to get hit but it is very different to fence when you know you will die if you make a single mistake. That fear is completely missing from sparring. Also due to rules and gear many techniques that work in a real duel no longer work or won't win you the tournament. Such is the difference between sparring setup and a duel.

Now, winning a tournament or doing well is definitely a validator of sorts that you are very skilled in relation to the other contestants. We can also look at who the other contestants have fought and sort of build a sparring ranking list if we wished.

In Longsword there's no great reward for winning. The greatest two things you earn are validation that you must be doing something right and the respect of your peers.

Many don't view Longsword fencing as sport to begin with. People from HEMA background tend to view it as modern recreation of a real lethal martial art as practiced in today's society subject to modern laws. This essentially means that our goal is to "keep it real". Techniques need to be both historically based and they need to work in a given situation. Now, there are a lot of situations and a lot of freedom - you can choose whichever context you desire, such as a judicial battle from 13th century Germany or 15th century Germany - the two could differ - or 14th century Italy or even fending off highway bandits or an assassin.

Indeed, training often involves wrestling moves, punches, kicks, all manner of grappling, grabbing the other guy's sword or hilt, throws.. etc. and sometimes we do fun things like put on plate armor or fight against other weapons such as spears, sword and buckler, knife and so. One great documented historical set of "plays" included in Fiore's plays (Farfalle di Ferro, Iron Butterfly) have a person carrying a longsword in scabbard assaulted by an assassin wielding a dagger, the play includes moves for blocking the stab and defeating the assailant.

Also of course the other way around works too.




Longsword is a beautiful weapon and fighting with it is fun. It's not only fun, we're keeping the long traditions of historic martial arts alive. Of all fencing Longsword is the most popular in HEMA.

Also, it has none of that Japanese Bullshido of "we wirr buird up walliol spilit". In Europe at least it was assumed that in a duel you'd have plenty enough impetus to win when your life was at stake.
Also, Europeans have far longer military tradition of convincing men to stand in tightly packed formations and face death stoically than the Japanese have. In Europe the walliol spilit is simply expected, in Japan they have built this yuge bullshido myth around it. Didn't really work that well in WW II, they had to feed their troops a steady diet of Hiropon to help bolster their spilits before charging enemy machine gun nest. Hiropon is simply a military ration of heroine, apparently once you took it you had all the warrior spirit in the world, to the point of running against a machine gun nest with a bayonet. Didn't really work out that well for them, in my view but they did die for the Emperor so I guess that there was a goal set and achieved.

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 Post subject: Re: Military stuff ... past and present.
PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2017 2:18 pm 
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I'm sympathetic to the activity. But something tells me, if there is little or no real risk of injury, and moreover when what is "fair" is more highly constrained than in a true duel, that what results is a lot less "real" than some might imagine.

I have my doubts that "the best" fencer, swordsman, or whatever in one of these modern day "sport" activities would stand any chance at all of surviving if he/she were transported back in time to 1600 and faced a mediocre opponent of the era.

Sport just cannot replicate combat.

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 Post subject: Re: Military stuff ... past and present.
PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2017 11:32 am 
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Anthropoid wrote:
I'm sympathetic to the activity. But something tells me, if there is little or no real risk of injury, and moreover when what is "fair" is more highly constrained than in a true duel, that what results is a lot less "real" than some might imagine.

I have my doubts that "the best" fencer, swordsman, or whatever in one of these modern day "sport" activities would stand any chance at all of surviving if he/she were transported back in time to 1600 and faced a mediocre opponent of the era.

Sport just cannot replicate combat.


We try to take it very seriously - that tournaments and sparring are not the equivalent of actually dueling 'in earnest'.

For instance Guy Windsor has written a lot on the subject of sparring vs. real combat and encourages HEMA practitioners to accommodate sharp training in their schedule.

This is also what I was trying to convey in my long writing above - that for many of us HEMA is not sports. Sparring is just a training method among many others which include all sorts of sword drills such as flow drills, technical drills, reaction tests, response training and cutting.

I actually agree with you on how good we are today. Few of us ever take the activity as serious as someone who's life might depend on it. For the amount of practitioners in medieval era, there were a lot of practitioners who trained a lot, very hard and seriously. There are many lower enthusiasm or less physically committed HEMA practitioners who aren't ready to sweat blood for the art.

Also, the people studied under masters who had fought in actual duels and who's students had fought in actual duels. We can see from historical records that many of these students of the 'great masters' did remarkably well in duels. We don't have those masters. The best current practitioners are really good though but that's the tip of the iceberg, majority at the moment aren't that good. The training hours of an average HEMA practitioner at the moment aren't very high, this is in part because of the exponential growth HEMA has been experiencing as of recent years. A lot of novices, including clubs founded by beginners. Yours truly is also merely a 'noviciate' at best. But I will be the first one to acknowledge that I would put that much more effort into my currently intensive training if I could expect to be facing 'in earnest' duel at some point in my life. Now I only practice until skin starts peeling off. If I'd lived then I would have trained until my hands bled. It makes a big difference.

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 Post subject: Re: Military stuff ... past and present.
PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2017 9:12 pm 
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A Military stuff ... past and present quiz question:

Can you name the last aircraft carrier in U.S. military history to date sunk by enemy action?

If no one guesses the answer I will post it on Tuesday.

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 Post subject: Re: Military stuff ... past and present.
PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 4:59 am 
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chijohnaok wrote:
A Military stuff ... past and present quiz question:

Can you name the last aircraft carrier in U.S. military history to date sunk by enemy action?

If no one guesses the answer I will post it on Tuesday.


Guess - no fact checking!

From the top of my head I'm throwing.. Yorktown. I just woke up, have mercy.

:edit:
Checked after committing the answer. Oh my... :oops:

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