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 Post subject: Re: Military stuff ... past and present.
PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 9:23 am 
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The bonus is that Antietam is only about a half hour drive south of there. Also well kept up. You can take that one in in an afternoon.

Gettysburg is an all day affair. Visit the Regimental Quartermaster store there downtown. It's where I bought my muskets.

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 Post subject: Re: Military stuff ... past and present.
PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2018 11:50 am 
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I blame elitist art snobs for World War 2


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 Post subject: Re: Military stuff ... past and present.
PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2018 8:26 am 
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mdiehl wrote:
Right but that's sort of the point of force multiplies. Small (relative to attackers) entrenched forces can wallop vastly superior forces unless something breaks up or disorganizes the defense.

Going back to Gettysburg, there's also the 20th Maine & 83rd Pennsylvania's defense of Little Round Top. Vastly outnumbered, they were in a prepared position and held off several southron advances. In the final push the southrons were basically exhausted. The 20th Maine, out of ammo, fixed bayonets and charged, catching the southrons off-balance and breaking the attack. A small detachment of the 20th Maine appeared on the right rear flank of the southrons. The disorganized southrons caught off balance by the charge and confused by the appearance of some 20 guys in their supposedly secure rear flank surrendered in droves.


Yea, there are many factors at play simultaneously.

One often overlooked factor is the importance of memes - the fabric that wovs into what amounts as morale of the unit.
Things like esprit de corps, national pride, hatred of the enemy, what they consider the stakes to be and so forth.

The leftists are always quick to attack those very ideas that make troops fight hard - tearing them down, deconstructing them with the same kind of approach of "love is just a chemical reaction".

Sure, not all of the ideas fully add up and some have logical fallacies in them. Others not so much but they get attacked all the same for assertions such as "our cause is more important to us than someone else's cause". It makes sense, it's not your business to go out of your way to help others win you. It's not your concerns if you outcompete and outperform your rivals. Least in war - it's none of your concern what being defeated means to the enemy or if some philosopher disagrees with your notion that your life is more dear to you than the enemy's.

I saw an egghead professor argue about this - how the Maori invaded an island where the inhabitants believed in pacifism and ignored the initial traditional Maori threats and posturing. The Maori ritually tortured the islanders while rape torturing every female on the island until there were virtually no more men left to be slowly tortured to death and when the remainder of the female population - what was left of them - was reduced to sex slaves.

If I remember correctly they wiped out some 90% of the inhabitants. The professor argued that the islanders won "morale victory" by being tortured to death and used as sex toys until they expired. "Great for them! That showed the Maori!"

The very first thing for a successful defense - or offense - is that you get your soldiers' heads in the right place.
Similarly, winning a war is about getting your home front's heads in the right place.

This was how Rome was built with sword and spear - if a city could withstand 10 years of siege Romans captured it on the 11th. It didn't matter if the emperors changed, policies changed and there were civil strife and all sorts of upheaval. The sieging legions weren't called out until the job was done.

This is also how many tribes fell and became provinces of empires - they either didn't believe warfare was as important as it is or they might have so much autonomy between the tribes that they didn't feel like defending each other and were *all* gulped up piecemeal.

Example of how to build a warrior mindset that makes the troops fight harder - Japan.

Historically the Samurai were nothing unlike any other warrior elite anywhere else. Many Samurai didn't even know how to fight exceedingly well, many were more preoccupied with things like flower arrangements or official duties such as bean counting - bookkeeping, acting as officials and so.

As such Samurai armies were routed just like every other army throughout history and most of the heroic last stands were limited to the retinues of warlords - the extended family of clan daimyo. It was simple - you went down with the sinking ship and you could not surrender. Actually, the rank and file could not surrender either but run they did. The last stands were often in situations where they were surrounded, such as Satsuma rebellion, there was literally nowhere to go for the final ~50 wounded Samurai including the rebellion's leader. Everyone else had defected at that point, not slain in combat, not crushed but betrayed their oaths and switched sides, unfortunately as the person starting the rebellion and being it's figurehead you cannot really change sides when odds stack against you and conscript musketeers surround you.

In other words, yes, some fought with heroic courage and others would rout or even switch sides at first sign of trouble. Nothing *special* about that.

But when you revision that history and feed it to masses under full totalitarian jingoist propaganda machine that is purposefully seeking to promote honor, sacrifice and obedience as the overriding virtues and values then the conscripts can fight with ferocity unmatched by the Samurai themselves that they so venerated and idolized.

And did it matter that the Samurai weren't what they were made out to be? Not really, it was a pragmatic affair that was so successful that it was eventually blown out of proportion.

Eventually the highest levels of leadership themselves were fully immersed with those notions of "supremacy of indomitable spirit" and "warrior's honor".

Eventually the whole nation was so seething with it's supremacist propaganda that they could no longer recognize their own weaknesses.

Eventually the admirals and generals started to fall for the make belief that "being really angry, not giving up and shouting from the top of your lungs" could somehow manifest into carriers, fuel and bombers that they needed to win. And we all know how that went.

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 Post subject: Re: Military stuff ... past and present.
PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2018 3:15 pm 
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Kuopio Local Defense Battalion training cooperation with authorities and so.

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 Post subject: Re: Military stuff ... past and present.
PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2018 12:08 pm 
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A short video covering the German Army Expansion 1933-1939



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 Post subject: Re: Military stuff ... past and present.
PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 11:24 am 
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https://warisboring.com/the-dynamite-cr ... the-enemy/

Quote:
The Dynamite Cruiser Was Nearly as Dangerous to Her Crew as She Was to the Enemy

A U.S. Navy experiment to find an alternative to black powder resulted in a strange design


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March 15, 2018 Robert Beckhusen

On June 13, 1898, the cruiser USS Vesuvius crept within one mile of the Cuban coastline and began launching explosives from her monstrous compressed-air cannons — quietly, as far as the Spanish soldiers ashore in their fort knew until the shells landed. The nighttime shore bombardment targeting Santiago was Vesuvius’ first combat mission.

She still remains one of the strangest warships of the modern era. A custom-built “dynamite gun cruiser,” Vesuvius had a unique arrangement of three 15-inch pneumatic cannons capable of launching 550 or 200-pound shells with a jolt of compressed air. Fascinating from an engineering perspective, Vesuvius’ cannons penetrated into her hull at an angle — effectively making the cruiser a giant, floating triple gun.

The U.S. Navy built the 246-foot-long, 945-ton Vesuvius as an experiment to solve a technical problem with artillery bursting charges, according to a U.S. Army Research and Development Command — or RDECOM — history of military explosives.

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Dynamite, patented by Alfred Nobel in 1867, was prone to blowing up inside their shells during launch at high velocities, restricting U.S. naval weapons development, as the Navy at the time still largely used black-powder propellants, the RDECOM history noted. European navies used smokeless powders that posed less of a danger of exceeding the pressure limit of a barrel, which could trigger a shell’s explosives.


The Vesuvius’ pneumatic-powered cannons did not have to worry about excessive pressure, and the seven-foot-long, dart-shaped shells contained a relatively more stable gelatinous dynamite mixture which ignited on impact with the ground by an electric battery. For an example of the vessel’s cannons at a fixed 16-degree angle, see these photos above and below Vesuvius’ deck.

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To increase or decrease the range, the crew modified the air pressure.

She was also relatively small for a cruiser given the unique armament. However, her firing range was poor at a maximum of one mile with the larger, 500-pound shells — double that for the lighter shells. The attack on Santiago took place at night given that the Spanish’s forts cannons could out-range her. But the damage was reportedly significant if you believe accounts at the time.


“Frightful destruction has been wrought within the Spanish forts by the explosion of the dynamite shells,” chemist Wm. App Jones wrote in an August 1898 edition of Merck’s Report. He then quoted a naval officer who thought the chances of survival in actual combat were slim — given the hull full of dynamite.

“As the captain of the Vesuvius recently remarked with grim humor, ‘Once struck by an enemy’s shell, no funeral rites will be necessary for the men on board this boat.'”

Dangerous as serving on Vesuvius remained, the one upside is that her cannons were quiet at a distance. Otherwise, and during the day, she was of little use and was practically defenseless versus surface ships that could outfight and outmaneuver her with their traversing turrets and considerably heavier armor.

As a result, and especially because of the cruiser’s short range, the Navy pulled her pneumatic cannons out and converted her into a vessel for testing torpedoes — but one of those torpedoes turned around and struck her during a 1915 experiment. She didn’t sink, thanks to damage control efforts by the crew, but the Navy went on to scrap her in 1922.



Explosive shells fired through a pneumatic gun with a range of one mile......you'll never see this ship in World of Warships. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Military stuff ... past and present.
PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 2:48 pm 
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They talk of 'glass cannons' but that one is in it's own class.

At least they could've fixed the guns at 50º elevation - which is the lowest angle for maximum range under most circumstances.

I am half expecting the next in the series to be a blimp filled with hydrogen and equipped with napalm canisters and flame throwers for taking out enemy trenches and bunkers. You can relatively easily get 100m vertical range for flamethrower, what about if it is mounted on a flying platform? Not just flying platform but one that will slide without a sound over the enemy positions and incinerate them without a warning!

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 Post subject: Re: Military stuff ... past and present.
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 8:04 am 
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Kameolontti wrote:
They talk of 'glass cannons' but that one is in it's own class.

At least they could've fixed the guns at 50º elevation - which is the lowest angle for maximum range under most circumstances.



I suspect the problem with mounting those big long barrels, at such a high elevation, would cause problems such as instability and structural weakness on such a small hull. That ship is tiny.

Obviously they only named it a "cruiser" because it's bun barrels were so large, but the hull looks to be the size of a much smaller gunboat. With the higher center of gravity such a fixed gun angle would lend to the ship, there would be some real danger of tipping in choppy seas or when firing.

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 Post subject: Re: Military stuff ... past and present.
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 8:56 am 
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NefariousKoel wrote:
Kameolontti wrote:
They talk of 'glass cannons' but that one is in it's own class.

At least they could've fixed the guns at 50º elevation - which is the lowest angle for maximum range under most circumstances.



I suspect the problem with mounting those big long barrels, at such a high elevation, would cause problems such as instability and structural weakness on such a small hull. That ship is tiny.

Obviously they only named it a "cruiser" because it's bun barrels were so large, but the hull looks to be the size of a much smaller gunboat. With the higher center of gravity such a fixed gun angle would lend to the ship, there would be some real danger of tipping in choppy seas or when firing.


Check monitor type vessels, they carry some big guns because they're designed to do so.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finnish_coastal_defence_ship_Ilmarinen

Displacement: 3,900 t
Length: 93.0 m (305.1 ft)
Beam: 16.864 m (55.33 ft)
Draught: 4.5 m (15 ft)

Armament:
[design]
4 × 254 mm (10 in)/45 cal Bofors guns (2 × 2)
8 × 105 mm (4 in)/50 cal Bofors DP guns (4 × 2)
4 × 40 mm/40 cal Vickers AA guns (4 × 1)
2 × 20 mm/60 cal Madsen AA guns (2 × 1)

[1941]
4 × 254 mm/45 cal Bofors guns (2 × 2)
8 × 105 mm/50 cal Bofors DP guns (4 × 2)
4 × 40 mm/56 cal Bofors AA M/36S guns (1 × 2, 2 × 1)
4 × 20 mm/60 cal Madsen AA guns (4 × 1)

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 Post subject: Re: Military stuff ... past and present.
PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 2:13 pm 
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WARNING

The Japanese Arisaka rifle that blows up!

Why?



Make sure you know what your buying.

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