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 Post subject: Re: Military stuff ... past and present.
PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 4:02 pm 
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Top ten martial arts?

Concealed carry firearm . . .

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 Post subject: Re: Military stuff ... past and present.
PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 6:07 am 
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Anthropoid wrote:
Top ten martial arts?

Concealed carry firearm . . .


When talking about martial arts the word martial comes to mind.

Martial being the opposite of sports. When you set up a tournament it means that the martial art starts to develop in the direction of what works within the tournament ruleset.

For instance if you're in no risk of actually dying in a tournament even if you lose and if only the first person scoring a point is counted for the whole 'art' turns into a suicidal race for the first hit with ever increasing number of double-hits: situations where both combatants (or sportsmen in this case) would have killed each other in a life or death situation.

When the sport receives sponsors and eventually strives to become an Olympic sport all of these issues are exaggerated to a point where the sport is completely detached from it's martial origins.

For instance the equipment becomes increasingly abstracted away from that resembling original gear, safety rules are added and all sorts of customs are introduced which all change the way the entire sports is practiced and trained with scoring and winning as the ultimate goal.


Hence why many "martial" arts are not martial arts to begin with. They are simply sports activities that did or didn't make the cut to be considered worthy of inclusion at Olympics.

Real martial arts emphasize things that are inherently difficult to turn into a sport. For instance ideally there would be honesty between sparring partners about hits. While this is idealistic, it is still good to have a rule set and judging system that emphasize practice methods and fighting styles that would have practical use in the given context.


In real world situations it is almost always better to have a firearm than not to have one.
At the same time having a firearm is not a great defense against a person armed with a melee weapon that is already within 6 meters of you. You cannot parry with a pistol, you'd need a rifle for that.

Even when you do have a firearm at hand you need special training on how to fight a person armed with a knife or a hammer which are items you'll likely run into since not a whole lot of people walk around with rapiers these days.

What I reckon of all of it is that ideally you would be wearing some kind of IIIa level protection such as this:
Image
IIIa level of protection without it standing out in any way.

Even more important is to keep your wits with you and learn a sense of constant vigilance.

What is this situation like that I am in, am I entering what could amount to a bad scenario? Where are the exits, are there any usual suspects around? Are police available, etc.

At the end of day if you find yourself positioned badly you will not survive. Nothing is worse than finding yourself in a tactically hopeless situation.

Tactical sense trumps common sense and what is socially acceptable or expected.


In other words, don't get drunk and don't get surrounded by lots of people with knives who want to kill you in a tiny elevator or some shady basement.

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 Post subject: Re: Military stuff ... past and present.
PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 12:26 pm 
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Quote:
When the sport receives sponsors and eventually strives to become an Olympic sport all of these issues are exaggerated to a point where the sport is completely detached from it's martial origins.


Fencing being the prime example. The touches that aren't hits. The parries that did not deflect attacks but count as blocks and establish right of way or wtf the whole block-that-does-not-block bullshit represents.

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 Post subject: Re: Military stuff ... past and present.
PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 5:26 am 
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mdiehl wrote:
Quote:
When the sport receives sponsors and eventually strives to become an Olympic sport all of these issues are exaggerated to a point where the sport is completely detached from it's martial origins.


Fencing being the prime example. The touches that aren't hits. The parries that did not deflect attacks but count as blocks and establish right of way or wtf the whole block-that-does-not-block bullshit represents.


There's a great example of "right of way" etc. being fucked up by sports from Napoleonic Wars.

Iirc. Wellington wrote that his officers were constantly being challenged by French ones approaching them over the field with their smallswords and whoever it was that wrote it noted that the English were all too eager to respond to these challenges and almost invariably got the better of the Frenchmen despite a skill difference in favor of the French for the English would simply dash in attacking madly without any respect for 'right of way' to which the French protested loudly.


Also, sporting swords are invariably too light which further distances the physics of the game from that of practical situation. It's quite different to swing half a pound than a real sword that can weigh 2-5kg.

That said rapier is the most beautiful sword there is:
Image
It is also arguably the ultimate dueling sword.

Except for katana, which is forged of skydome itself by gods and which is the only sword that can cut a modern tank in half...

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 Post subject: Re: Military stuff ... past and present.
PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 6:27 am 
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:lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Military stuff ... past and present.
PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 11:55 am 
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abradley wrote:
:lol:



:lol:

Oh yea, saw that one. Hilarious stuff, great one from Metatron!

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 Post subject: Re: Military stuff ... past and present.
PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2017 8:12 am 
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Unskilled opponents


Average European 14th century armor


Cutting through tatami with rapier as part of HEMA Alliance's April Challenge


Can you parry with rapier?

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 Post subject: Re: Military stuff ... past and present.
PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2017 11:34 am 
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All is fair in love and war.

Not true for fencing (or even dueling to a lesser extent) or other rituals.

Love and war are not rituals, they are primal acts of existential striving.

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 Post subject: Re: Military stuff ... past and present.
PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2017 3:35 pm 
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Tripped over this, interesting.

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 Post subject: Re: Military stuff ... past and present.
PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2017 7:52 pm 
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That is pretty damned interesting. I would think the military would be into that kind stuff; not so much the medieval but actual scientific studies of how soldiers perform using various types of kit.

Having been a caver for many years, I can say: a bad kit can ruin your performance. A well-tuned kit can let you shine. A perfect kit is almost like a talisman that boosts performance. Very subtle things too like . . . many in my group used shoulder bags (small triple thick ballistic cloth bags with big beefy fastec snaps and a draw string closure): one needs to shift the position of the bag on the body far too much to use two straps. So when you crawl the bag dangles under you when you walk you have it slung into the small of your back or hip. When you stoop walk you definitely put it in small of your back as a counter balance, etc.

Because of all this shifting of the bag, the strap would tend to abraid the neck. I very early figured out that wearing a turtleneck synthetic material shirt as my bottom layer was the ideal. The bunched up cloth at the neck prevented the neck abrasion and when it was cold you could pull the turtleneck up around your face.

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