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 Post subject: Moderate Muslims and Fascists
PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 5:56 pm 
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So, I watched a cool documentary, 'When Tommy met Mo', which was about when Tommy Robinson - who was leading the English Defence League at the time - did some outreaching with various Muslim community leader types.

You have to ignore the BBC layering of schmaltz and propaganda, but the thing that struck me was the reasonableness of all concerned. Including the EDL guys they showed besides Tommy Robinson. Thugs they were not, fascists they were not, IMO. Brave of the BBC to air it IMO.



The other thing that struck me was this guy in it in passing called Ibrahim Mogra, who is an imam in Birmingham. Wow. He must be the like the Muslim version of an Episcopalian. He's so humanist he's barely religious at all. Clearly people like him do exist. I agree with him as much as I agree with Father Barron, ie not a lot really, but still, my idea of what an acceptable priest is like, given we 're unfortunately gonna have priests. Here he is in action. (he's around 33:40 in the documentary above, as well).



Of course this rosy story of universal brotherly love and hugs and stuff does have a bit of a caveat - if you google him and find his stuff on youtube the comments are filled with Muslims calling him an apostate. Clearly we are not there yet. :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: Moderate Muslims and Fascists
PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2016 10:10 pm 
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It's BBC pro Muslim propaganda.

Mohammad was a warrior prophet, a good Muslim follows his example just like a good Christian follows Jesus' example.

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 Post subject: Re: Moderate Muslims and Fascists
PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 4:41 am 
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abradley wrote:
Mohammad was a warrior prophet, a good Muslim follows his example just like a good Christian follows Jesus' example.


We're back to Queen Isabella and 700 odd years of Christian clerical fascism again if you think underlying theology is all that relevant.

Doesn't really matter what Mo was, it's what Muslims are like which really matters.

Also I thought the EDL came out of it pretty well!

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 Post subject: Re: Moderate Muslims and Fascists
PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 5:17 am 
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EUBanana wrote:
abradley wrote:
Mohammad was a warrior prophet, a good Muslim follows his example just like a good Christian follows Jesus' example.


We're back to Queen Isabella and 700 odd years of Christian clerical fascism again if you think underlying theology is all that relevant.

Doesn't really matter what Mo was, it's what Muslims are like which really matters.

Also I thought the EDL came out of it pretty well!
What does Isabella have to do with it, if she was what you seem to be saying then she wasn't following Jesus' example and teachings.

The terrorists are following Mohammad's example and teachings.

Where are the Muslim armies putting down the terrorists, over all the Muslims are ok with terrorism as long as it's not them being the target ... anything that advances Islam.

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 Post subject: Re: Moderate Muslims and Fascists
PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 8:42 am 
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abradley wrote:
What does Isabella have to do with it, if she was what you seem to be saying then she wasn't following Jesus' example and teachings.

The terrorists are following Mohammad's example and teachings.


See, this is the irrelevant part. Isabella was a Christian. Christians who think what you think back then were probably a tiny minority of persecuted heretics. What the good book said was neither here nor there, what matters is if Christians are largely people like Isabella, or people like you.

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Where are the Muslim armies putting down the terrorists, over all the Muslims are ok with terrorism as long as it's not them being the target ... anything that advances Islam.


Well, that's the thing. Certainly Islam has some serious problems; they are like Christianity was hundreds of years ago. But that Ibrahim Mogra guy seems like an Islamic version of an Anglican - pretty inoffensive. If his view became a majority view then that'd basically be what a 'victory scenario' for resolving Islamism would look like.

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 Post subject: Re: Moderate Muslims and Fascists
PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 1:37 pm 
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"Is Clash Between Islam and the West Inevitable?"


Seems like the more apt question is "When Will the Clash End?"

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 Post subject: Re: Moderate Muslims and Fascists
PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 5:48 am 
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EUBanana wrote:
abradley wrote:
What does Isabella have to do with it, if she was what you seem to be saying then she wasn't following Jesus' example and teachings.

The terrorists are following Mohammad's example and teachings.


See, this is the irrelevant part. Isabella was a Christian. Christians who think what you think back then were probably a tiny minority of persecuted heretics. What the good book said was neither here nor there, what matters is if Christians are largely people like Isabella, or people like you.

Quote:
Where are the Muslim armies putting down the terrorists, over all the Muslims are ok with terrorism as long as it's not them being the target ... anything that advances Islam.


Well, that's the thing. Certainly Islam has some serious problems; they are like Christianity was hundreds of years ago. But that Ibrahim Mogra guy seems like an Islamic version of an Anglican - pretty inoffensive. If his view became a majority view then that'd basically be what a 'victory scenario' for resolving Islamism would look like.
What Christians did in Isabella's time isn't the topic, it's not our present problem. If your wanting to post on that then open another thread, this is about modern day Muslims and if Islam can be de-violenced.

I say no.

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 Post subject: Re: Moderate Muslims and Fascists
PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 6:40 am 
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In that case, what sort of victory condition can you envisage? Wiping out Islam simply isn't going to happen after all.

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 Post subject: Re: Moderate Muslims and Fascists
PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2016 12:01 am 
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EUBanana wrote:
In that case, what sort of victory condition can you envisage? Wiping out Islam simply isn't going to happen after all.
Sadly, no victory condition ... at least no outright victory in our time.

We'll have to use their religion against them.
Quote:
Battle of Uhud
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Uhud
Whilst outnumbered, the Muslims gained the early initiative and forced the Meccan lines back, thus leaving much of the Meccan camp unprotected. When the battle looked to be only one step away from a decisive Muslim victory, a serious mistake was committed by a part of the Muslim army, which altered the outcome of the battle. A breach of Muhammad's orders by the Muslim archers, who left their assigned posts to despoil the Meccan camp, allowed a surprise attack from the Meccan cavalry, led by Meccan war veteran Khalid ibn al-Walid, which brought chaos to the Muslim ranks. Many Muslims were killed, and even Muhammad himself was badly injured. The Muslims had to withdraw up the slopes of Uhud. The Meccans did not pursue the Muslims further, but marched back to Mecca declaring victory.
Following the battle Mohammad said that God had punished them for disobeying him, so now a defeat is seen as God's punishment. Every time they step out of line punish them ... brutally.

Don't risk any losses like Obama's doing, stop allowing them to flood into Europe, let them stew in their own mess, after all they make it.

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 Post subject: Re: Moderate Muslims and Fascists
PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2016 12:08 am 
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abradley wrote:
Where are the Muslim armies putting down the terrorists, over all the Muslims are ok with terrorism as long as it's not them being the target ... anything that advances Islam.


They're in Europe planning new gang rapes of the "welcome refugees" crowd.

Probably felt offended by being welcomed and then not being given enough money and virgins.

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