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 Post subject: Re: Bill Nye Debates Ken Ham - HD (Official)
PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 9:14 pm 
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nero wrote:
And what would the Pope say about creation of the Universe and Evolution?

Alexandra Petri wrote:
Image
October 28 at 3:37 PM

God is not ‘a magician, with a magic wand,’ says pope

Like many CBS viewers over a certain age, Pope Francis is a fan of the Big Bang Theory.

Addressing the Pontifical Academy of Sciences on Monday, the pontiff observed that “when we read about Creation in Genesis, we run the risk of imagining God was a magician, with a magic wand able to do everything. But that is not so.”

God is not a magician, with a magic wand? Well, as The Tweet of God quipped, “there goes My Halloween costume.”

Maybe I know what caused this. One anonymous Internet person “proudhousewife” has been sedulously rewriting the Harry Potter books to have a Christian message and not seduce children into dark magic. (Harry now attends the Hogwarts School of Prayer and Miracles. In one passage, Hermione tells Harry: “There is a man named Voldemort who wants to destroy all that we stand for. He is pushing an agenda in congress which will stop us from practicing our faith freely.”
“But that is what our founding fathers built this nation for!” Harry cried indignantly. “The freedom of religion!”
“Voldemort doesn’t care,” Hermione remarked sadly; and she shook her head. “And he is gaining power. The freedom of Christians to practice our faith is disappearing by the day. Soon, it will be like it was in Rome.” Lovely, ladylike tears began to roll down her delicate, terrified face. “And I don’t like lions!”) Just in case this person was not joking, did the pope feel compelled to intervene, clearing up any God-Wizard confusion once and for all?

Next the pope will roll out a big PowerPoint explaining that God and Dumbledore were two very different people and that if you got a note inviting you to the Hogwarts School of Prayer and Miracles, you should politely pass.

Anyway, so much for those holdouts who thought that God was a magician with a magic wand. (Who were these people? Isn’t magic frowned on by the Church? And why were these people demoting God to wand magic, when everyone knows that an omnipotent creator would CLEARLY have gone wandless by now?)

This isn’t actually massive news — the Catholic Church has moved pretty far since the days of Galileo, even going so far as to admit in 1992 that Galileo may have had a point about that whole revolution thing. (Hey, better 350 years late than 350 years never.)

The point that the pope is making is well taken: Science and religion not only can coexist, but should.

It is interesting to hear this coming from the pontiff in days when people often make the mistake of thinking of science — especially evolution — as something to be believed in or not. Science, properly observed, is independent of belief. Whether you believe in the Big Bang Theory is immaterial. If you stop believing in “The Big Bang Theory,” it might go off the air. If you stop believing in the Big Bang Theory, the same facts that cohered around it will continue to do so, independent of you. A scientific theory is liable to testing in a way that a religious belief simply isn’t. You can’t run an experiment to test the validity of the Book of Job. But the whole point of the scientific method is that you make a hypothesis, you see if the facts support your hypothesis, and if they don’t, you change the hypothesis. Hypotheses that are consistently supported by the evidence become theories. If the facts stop proving that a theory is true, the theory no longer stands.

This is all entirely removed from belief. Evolution doesn’t need you to believe in it. It is doing just fine on its own. As Keith Blanchard wrote in the Week, “Evolution is nothing more than a fairly simple way of understanding what is unquestionably happening. You don’t believe in it — you either understand it or you don’t. But pretending evolution is a matter of faith can be a clever way to hijack the conversation, and pit it in a false duality against religion … Reconciling is easy: Believe, if you want to, that God set up the rules of evolution among His wonders, along with the laws of physics, and probability, and everything else we can see and measure for ourselves. But don’t deny evolution itself, or gravity, or the roundness of Earth. That’s just covering your eyes and ears.”

That’s what the pope said, too. “Evolution in nature is not inconsistent with the notion of creation, because evolution requires the creation of beings that evolve.” He observed that God “created human beings and let them develop according to the internal laws that he gave to each one so they would reach their fulfillment.” These beliefs operate on different levels — factual and metaphorical.

Galileo had the right idea, if he said what we believed he said, getting up from his recantation before the tribunal of the Inquisition. “E pur si muove” — “and yet it moves.” He knew it didn’t matter whether he officially proclaimed his belief in heliocentrism. You can believe or disclaim what you like; the facts are the facts.
:o

Now it official, intelligent design is not even a theory, it is pure nonsense. :lol:

So it goes.
It's official :roll: only if you believe the Pope's every utterance.

I don't.

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 Post subject: Re: Bill Nye Debates Ken Ham - HD (Official)
PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 12:34 pm 
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His Holiness could never make a mistake could he?

That's why I'm not Catholic.

Unlike most fundamentalist extremist Baptists, I don't believe Catholics are doomed to hell - but there's serious problems w/ their doctrine. IMO.

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 Post subject: Re: Bill Nye Debates Ken Ham - HD (Official)
PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 4:11 pm 
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C_S wrote:
His Holiness could never make a mistake could he?

That's why I'm not Catholic.

Unlike most fundamentalist extremist Baptists, I don't believe Catholics are doomed to hell - but there's serious problems w/ their doctrine. IMO.
Assuming your referring to the pope's infallibility:
Quote:

For a teaching by a pope or ecumenical council to be recognized as infallible, the teaching must be:

A decision of the supreme teaching authority of the Church (pope or College of Bishops)
Concern a doctrine of faith or morals
Bind the universal Church
Be proposed as something to hold firmly and immutably
In other words if the pope wakes up Friday and insists it's Saturday he's wrong. :o

So Nero is wrong:
Quote:
Now it official, intelligent design is not even a theory, it is pure nonsense. :lol:

So it goes.
The Pope was making a statement about intelligent design, not declaring a doctrine.

I was disagreeing with Nero's saying it was official, not whether ID is valid or not.

For that:
Quote:
http://www.catholic.com/magazine/articl ... ent-design
"God of the Gaps"
..............
Now, a Thomist might agree with Behe’s knowledge claim that no current or foreseeable future attempt at explanation for certain biological complexities is satisfactory. Yet, a Thomist will reject Behe’s ontological claim that no such explanation can ever be given in terms of the operations of nature. This ontological claim depends on a "god of the gaps" view of divine agency. This is the view that nature, as God originally created it, contains gaps or omissions that require God to later fill or repair. Given the Thomistic understanding of divine agency, such a "god of the gaps" view is clearly inconsistent with a proper conception of the nature of creation and, therefore, is cosmogonically fallacious.

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 Post subject: Re: Bill Nye Debates Ken Ham - HD (Official)
PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 5:17 pm 
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For sure what Pope Frances said is no means Dogma. But this Frankie Boy is full of surprises. Eager to see what comes next; like condoms are not against the holy scripture dating back to the times of Sumeria 6000 years ago.

But is nice too see evolution in a very conservative organization like Catholic Church. It only needs leadership. And surely I hope that Frank lives a long life.

So it goes.

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 Post subject: Re: Bill Nye Debates Ken Ham - HD (Official)
PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 5:43 pm 
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nero wrote:
For sure what Pope Frances said is no means Dogma. But this Frankie Boy is full of surprises. Eager to see what comes next; like condoms are not against the holy scripture dating back to the times of Sumeria 6000 years ago.

But is nice too see evolution in a very conservative organization like Catholic Church. It only needs leadership. And surely I hope that Frank lives a long life.

So it goes.
:roll:
Quote:
http://www.catholicnews.com/data/storie ... 600273.htm
DESIGN-LOSSERVATORE Jan-17-2006 (510 words) xxxiIntelligent design not science, says Vatican newspaper article

By John Thavis
Catholic News Service
2006, Pope Francis was still in Argentina. All he did with this new statement was clarify in plain language like; 'God isn't a magician who waves a wand to correct problems in his plan.'

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 Post subject: Re: Bill Nye Debates Ken Ham - HD (Official)
PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2014 2:42 pm 
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Cosmos for abrad. ;)



Though Pope Frances might disagree. But for cretinists only.

So it goes.

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 Post subject: Re: Bill Nye Debates Ken Ham - HD (Official)
PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2014 8:31 pm 
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nero wrote:
Cosmos for abrad. ;)

[youtube]-[/youtube]

Though Pope Frances might disagree. But for cretinists only.

So it goes.
Ho Hum. :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: Bill Nye Debates Ken Ham - HD (Official)
PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2014 7:23 am 
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abradley wrote:
nero wrote:
Cosmos for abrad. ;)

[youtube]-[/youtube]

Though Pope Frances might disagree. But for cretinists only.

So it goes.
Ho Hum. :roll:

:lol:

I knew that you'd like it.

So it goes.

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 Post subject: Re: Bill Nye Debates Ken Ham - HD (Official)
PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2014 4:49 pm 
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nero wrote:
:lol:

I knew that you'd like it.

So it goes.
Pure boring ... same o, same o.

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+3 Girlfriend is totally unoptimized. You are better off with a +1 Keen Witty girlfriend and then appling Greater Magic Make-up to increase her enhancement bonus.
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 Post subject: Re: Bill Nye Debates Ken Ham - HD (Official)
PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2014 6:49 pm 
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abradley wrote:
nero wrote:
:lol:

I knew that you'd like it.

So it goes.
Pure boring ... same o, same o.

Ho Hum. :roll:

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