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 Post subject: Re: Hats off to Elon Musk
PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 3:41 am 
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chijohnaok wrote:
Well, "win-win" except for that fact that these electric cars were only "affordable" for as long as government subsidies were involved, and were impractical due to their limited range (batteries). Therefore they were not the primary auto for the owner. Once the subsidies are removed then only the well to do can afford them.
So the electric cars are being built for the well to do (those that could afford them were they not subsidized).

Those "winning" are the wealthy purchasers and the builders like Musk.

Those "losing" are the taxpayers whose money was used to subsidize the wealthy (purchasers and builders).


Yea but taxpayers are filthy plebs who are constantly wrong about everything, need to be told how to vote and never get why they should give their money for their betters.

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 Post subject: Re: Hats off to Elon Musk
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 1:22 pm 
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Most of the emerging technology has received a lot of public support and subsidies. Like railways and cars. There were policies to get rid of public tram systems in most of American cities in the 1920'.

And there are still subsidies to the carbon industry around the world worth a magnitude more than to the emerging energy.

My original post was about Musk giving patents off to public domain to speed up the speed of the eventual.

And I still will raise my hat to Elon Musk.

Image

(Bought some souvenirs in Pamplona during my Camino) :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: Hats off to Elon Musk
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 9:55 am 
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nero wrote:
Most of the emerging technology has received a lot of public support and subsidies. Like railways and cars.


Source?

Railways and cars emerged because they received so many subsidies? Source for that?

Trains and railways emerged in England by private enterprise of forward thinking capitalists, after initial successes everyone wanted to invest in them.

Cars and aircraft were invented by private inventors and quickly invested massive amounts in them. Ford wasn't running on subsidies.

The brothers were entrepreneurs specializing in bicycles.


Most of the cases involving subsidies have been nationalistic efforts to enter the markets, such as India's protectionism which allowed the shitty Tata Motor Company to over decades to assemble some form of competitiveness as it had essentially monopoly, subsidies and perfect shielding against markets.

Other places have tried to hold on to local businesses and jobs by offering all sorts of subsidies and perks for their local companies. This didn't help the things emerge, at most they allowed uncompetitive businesses and business practices to survive longer, in some cases this help did allow the companies to eventually claw their way back to being competitive but more often than not these subsidies have become permanent source of free money for the companies as it's never a good time to cut the lifeline they're depending on.

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 Post subject: Re: Hats off to Elon Musk
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 11:37 am 
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Kameolontti wrote:
nero wrote:
Most of the emerging technology has received a lot of public support and subsidies. Like railways and cars.


Source?

Railways and cars emerged because they received so many subsidies? Source for that?

Trains and railways emerged in England by private enterprise of forward thinking capitalists, after initial successes everyone wanted to invest in them.

Cars and aircraft were invented by private inventors and quickly invested massive amounts in them. Ford wasn't running on subsidies.

The brothers were entrepreneurs specializing in bicycles.


Most of the cases involving subsidies have been nationalistic efforts to enter the markets, such as India's protectionism which allowed the shitty Tata Motor Company to over decades to assemble some form of competitiveness as it had essentially monopoly, subsidies and perfect shielding against markets.

Other places have tried to hold on to local businesses and jobs by offering all sorts of subsidies and perks for their local companies. This didn't help the things emerge, at most they allowed uncompetitive businesses and business practices to survive longer, in some cases this help did allow the companies to eventually claw their way back to being competitive but more often than not these subsidies have become permanent source of free money for the companies as it's never a good time to cut the lifeline they're depending on.

Here you are:

Railroads, Federal Land Grants

As for cars, things are even more interesting: General Motors streetcar conspiracy.

“What’s Good for General Motors Is Good for America”. :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: Hats off to Elon Musk
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 3:21 pm 
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Kameolontti wrote:

Cars and aircraft were invented by private inventors and quickly invested massive amounts in them. Ford wasn't running on subsidies.




Actually, iirc, Ford's assembly line business was under threat via competitors attempting to block his production via government decree.

Rather the opposite of subsidies. There was a concerted effort, by gov't cronies, to restrict or eliminate his business. Luckily it failed.

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 Post subject: Re: Hats off to Elon Musk
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 3:39 pm 
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Don't think land grants to enable the laying of railroad tracks can be considered "subsidy" in the same sense as tax breaks to the alternate energy charlatans.

I'd need to see proof that there were NO STRINGS attached to those land grants to even consider it to be "subsidy" and on top of that, even if there were no strings attached, there were strings attached.

The railroads could not simply sell the land, they were obliged to build railroads which then provided an obvious and immediate value to the country. This was happening at a time long, LONG after railroad technology was very well developed and fully formed.

Giving tax breaks or other perks to companies to develop as yet unproven technologies (which push the limits of what is known in all the related fields) is a completely different kettle of fish.

More vague, stupid arm waving from Herr Sneer.

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 Post subject: Re: Hats off to Elon Musk
PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 1:41 pm 
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Kameolontti wrote:
I really like what they're doing at SpaceX. They're doing what NASA were unable to do for decades and using a fraction of the cost to get there. It's not that NASA were fools - instead they are a government organization, a large organization where it means that politics are important, both from politicians to direct their goals as well as within the organization.

[snip]


http://www.lifezette.com/polizette/nasa ... bad-press/

Quote:
NASA Shielding Elon Musk’s SpaceX from Bad Press
Lawmakers demand answers after agency stonewalls investigation on failed launch for over two years

by Elias Atienza | Updated 30 Aug 2017 at 7:17 AM

NASA is one of the few things that both sides of the political spectrum can agree on. While liberals and conservatives argue about taxation, foreign policy, criminal justice, and almost everything else, NASA is above it all. President Donald Trump, who has proposed spending cuts to pretty much every single government agency besides law enforcement and the military, has spared NASA from any major haircut.

What NASA is not above, however, is government cronyism and picking winners and losers. While Americans might love that NASA has a space-defender position opening, what they don’t love is how NASA is shielding companies from their mistakes.

SpaceX, a company that usually gets much love among conservative and libertarian circles, cost the taxpayers $110 million when one of its rockets blew up in June 2015. The company still received 80 percent of its expected payment, and we still don’t know why the rocket failed on its mission to resupply the International Space Station.

The funny thing about this is that NASA promised the public there would be a summary released of the investigation. Yet the agency announced just a few weeks ago that it doesn't need to anymore because "NASA is not required to complete a formal final report or public summary since it was an FAA licensed Flight." We might expect that kind of turnabout from Congress, the White House, and most of our agencies. We don't expect it from the people who sent men to the moon.



It's also funny because NASA didn't do that when it came to another company. In October 2014, Orbital's rocket blew up, costing the taxpayers $51 million. It was an FAA-licensed flight. It was conducted under the same NASA Commercial Resupply Services (CRS) program of which SpaceX is a part. Both involved aging rockets. Yet NASA still put out an executive summary for the Orbital incident within a year.

This clear double standard bothered Rep. Lamar Smith (R-Texas), the chairman of the House Committee on Science, Space, and Technology, and he ended up writing a letter to NASA Administrator Charles Bolden explaining his belief that the "discrepancy … raises questions about not only the equity and fairness of NASA's process for initiating independent accident investigations, but also the fidelity of the investigations themselves."

Bolden wrote back, denying that NASA was treating SpaceX any differently and that it wanted its Launch Services Program (LSP) to lead the review, writing it "would lead to an in-depth understanding of the events." This letter came as SpaceX was conducting its own investigation, run by a SpaceX official. NASA didn't have a full voting member on the investigation board.


As expected, SpaceX cleared itself of any wrongdoing, shuffling the blame squarely onto the supplier. Oddly, though, the one voting representative on its board didn't sign the report sent to NASA and the FAA. The LSP didn't think that SpaceX's conclusions were right, and its own investigation found that there were credible causes for the explosion, including SpaceX's possibly having some quality control issues. NASA's inspector general recommended that NASA have a more streamlined and consistent investigation policy.

In all this uncertainty, Bolden decided to write a letter to SpaceX in February 2016 "expressing concerns about the company's systems engineering and management practices, hardware installation and repair methods, and telemetry systems based on LSP's review of the failure." That letter, of course, was barely mentioned ever again by the inspector general, and it literally became a footnote of history. (It's a footnote in the audit of NASA concerning the June 2015 explosion.)

SpaceX then cost the American taxpayers even more money when another one of its Falcon 9 rockets blew up in September 2016, taking with it a $205 million Facebook satellite and a $62 million government contract. Facebook was trying to spread internet access in Africa and, because of this, its efforts were set back a few hundred million dollars.

The Senate Appropriations Committee has decided that enough is enough and included language in the new appropriations bill to force NASA to keep its promise of releasing a summary. It directed the FAA to produce a summary document of the June 2015 incident within 30 days of the bill's passage.

NASA should be above picking winners and losers when it comes to an important mission in human progress. Instead, it's wasting tens of millions of taxpayer dollars a year and reducing our trust in one of America's most storied government agencies. The agency is setting back our chance to explore the stars by years as it fails to thoroughly investigate the root causes of failed missions.

Congress is a mess. But in this, it did its part by stepping in with its oversight. Now it's time for NASA to figure out why SpaceX's rockets keep blowing up, so we can continue future exploration into space. As Trump said, "We stand at the birth of a new millennium, ready to unlock the mysteries of space, to free the earth from the miseries of disease, and to harness the energies, industries and technologies of tomorrow."

We can't do that if we can't trust the agency meant to propel us into a new technological age of space exploration.

Elias Atienza is associate editor of the Libertarian Republic

(photo credit, homepage and article images of Musk: Michelle Andonian, OnInnovation, Flickr)


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 Post subject: Re: Hats off to Elon Musk
PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 2:04 pm 
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Quote:
SpaceX then cost the American taxpayers even more money when another one of its Falcon 9 rockets blew up in September 2016, taking with it a $205 million Facebook satellite and a $62 million government contract. Facebook was trying to spread internet access in Africa and, because of this, its efforts were set back a few hundred million dollars.



Why the fuck are taxpayers subsidizing a fucking rocket launching a fucking Facebook satellite into orbit? A Facebook satellite that will serve fucking Africa?!

Goddamn globalist pieces of shit running funding in our federal gov't. :x

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 Post subject: Re: Hats off to Elon Musk
PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 4:21 pm 
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NefariousKoel wrote:
Quote:
SpaceX then cost the American taxpayers even more money when another one of its Falcon 9 rockets blew up in September 2016, taking with it a $205 million Facebook satellite and a $62 million government contract. Facebook was trying to spread internet access in Africa and, because of this, its efforts were set back a few hundred million dollars.



Why the fuck are taxpayers subsidizing a fucking rocket launching a fucking Facebook satellite into orbit? A Facebook satellite that will serve fucking Africa?!

Goddamn globalist pieces of shit running funding in our federal gov't. :x



Because the US taxpayers must ensure that Facebook is able to call out "fake news" to those in Africa.

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 Post subject: Re: Hats off to Elon Musk
PostPosted: Sat Oct 07, 2017 9:16 am 
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https://www.wsj.com/articles/behind-tes ... counts-wsj

Quote:
Behind Tesla’s Production Delays: Parts of Model 3 Were Being Made by Hand
Company this week blamed ‘production bottlenecks’ for coming well short of promised 1,500 vehicles
By Tim Higgins
Oct. 6, 2017 4:17 p.m. ET
FREMONT, Calif.—Tesla Inc. blamed “production bottlenecks” for having made only a fraction of the promised 1,500 Model 3s, the $35,000 sedan designed to propel the luxury electric-car maker into the mainstream.

Unknown to analysts, investors and the hundreds of thousands of customers who signed up to buy it, as recently as early September major portions of the Model 3 were still being banged out by hand, away from the automated production line, according to people familiar with the matter.

...
RELATED VIDEO




:roll:

Mr. Musk is said to be a genius, yet he has been unable to master something (the assembly line) that Henry Ford implemented almost 103 years ago.

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