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 Post subject: Perjury Trap
PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 12:25 pm 
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WTF is that? Can someone explain what it means and why Giuliani is even mentioning it?

Just curious.

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 Post subject: Re: Perjury Trap
PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 12:45 pm 
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It is a technique used by prosecutors to entrap an individual whom they suspect of wrongdoing (or even simply don't like or whose reputation they wish to tarnish to enhance their own career) but don't have sufficient evidence to prosecute.

The idea is to obtain good documentation of a fact beforehand and then put the target under oath, ask the question they ALREADY know the answer to in the hope the target will answer falsely or even be confused by the question and blunder into an apparent falsehood. This constitutes "perjury" and is a criminal act.

Thus the term, "perjury trap". It was used on Flynn because they didn't tell him they taped his conversation with the Russian Ambassador and the questions they asked were simply to entrap him and had no investigative value.

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 Post subject: Re: Perjury Trap
PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 12:47 pm 
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jack t ripper wrote:
It is a technique used by prosecutors to entrap an individual whom they suspect of wrongdoing (or even simply don't like or whose reputation they wish to tarnish to enhance their own career) but don't have sufficient evidence to prosecute.

The idea is to obtain good documentation of a fact beforehand and then put the target under oath, ask the question they ALREADY know the answer to in the hope the target will answer falsely or even be confused by the question and blunder into an apparent falsehood. This constitutes "perjury" and is a criminal act.

Thus the term, "perjury trap". It was used on Flynn because they didn't tell him they taped his conversation with the Russian Ambassador and the questions they asked were simply to entrap him and had no investigative value.

But with Trump, where is the trap? :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: Perjury Trap
PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 12:48 pm 
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nero wrote:
WTF is that? Can someone explain what it means and why Giuliani is even mentioning it?

Just curious.


Quote:
Perjury trap
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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A perjury trap is a form of prosecutorial misconduct in which a prosecutor calls a witness to testify with the intent to base a perjury charge on their statements in lieu of a legally sound way to prosecute them for some other crime.[1] For example, suppose that a person committed a crime for which they were never prosecuted, but the statute of limitations on that crime has expired. A prosecutor could set a perjury trap for them by calling them as a witness before a grand jury in a case about a different crime, and ask them about the expired crime. If the witness lies about the expired crime, that would be perjury—a new crime, which could then be prosecuted.[2] Prosecution for perjury elicited in this manner violates due process of law, since the investigatory powers of the grand jury are exploited to reach beyond their legal limits.[1] It has been argued by legal scholars whether it constitutes a form of entrapment.[2]

Claims of a perjury trap are common when perjury charges result from testimony before a grand jury, but are rarely proven.[3] No US federal court has ever accepted a motion to dismiss because of claimed perjury trap.[2] The defense is extremely difficult, because the question that elicited the perjured testimony must be immaterial to the case in which it was asked, and courts construe very broadly what questions count as material to a case.[2]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perjury_trap

This is the perjury trap:

---Mueller gets Trump into a deposition (an interview in which the person interviewed is under oath that everything they say is accurate and the truth).
---Mueller (or his underlings) ask Trump a series of questions, many of which Mueller already knows the answer to, in the hopes Trump says something that is not accurate or is in conflict with something that he previously said.
---Should that happen, then Mueller can charge him with a crime; not for having committed collusion, treason or some actual crime, but for having lied under oath.

That is essentially what happend to Michael Flynn:

Quote:
What is arguably most disturbing about this case is that then-National Security Adviser Flynn was pushed into a perjury trap by Obama administration holdovers at the Justice Department who concocted an unorthodox legal rationale for subjecting Flynn to an FBI interrogation four days after he took office, testing Flynn’s recollection of the conversations while the FBI agents had transcripts of the calls intercepted by the National Security Agency.

In other words, the Justice Department wasn’t seeking information about what Flynn said to Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak – the intelligence agencies already had that information. Instead, Flynn was being quizzed on his precise recollection of the conversations and nailed for lying when his recollections deviated from the transcripts.

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-12- ... mike-flynn

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 Post subject: Re: Perjury Trap
PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 12:55 pm 
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Would the Mueller team do that?

Fuck yes, they would. Ask Flynn

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 Post subject: Re: Perjury Trap
PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 1:17 pm 
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jack t ripper wrote:
Would the Mueller team do that?

Fuck yes, they would. Ask Flynn

Is it impossible for Trump to align with the facts? :roll:

There is no trap if Trump is not lying. As far I understand. The other thing is that Trump can not do it. :shock:

Interesting.

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 Post subject: Re: Perjury Trap
PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 1:30 pm 
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So, the perjury trap relies, for its success, on three premises: 1. Memory is imperfect. 2. Some questions are so very personal and unanticipated that the question is offensive, and the offended person shall evade answering. 3. When the interrogation occurs in an "open ended" context of the special counsel form, ANY question about anything may come from somewhere out of the blue so to speak. In theory, the special counsel MIGHT ask about which sexual position the President last used with his wife, based on "testimony" received from some other source that Trump did such and such because the voyeur was peeking through a keyhole, and were Trump to evade it would be a felony offense. The act about which the interrogation is not a crime but the special counsel has the power to ask and, in asking, be so offensive that evasion is a human response. Bingo perjury.

Now, that is an example. The question might be "how many times have you beaten your wife" (answer NONE but someone else says otherwise) or it might be "when money moved from some weird obscure account of hundreds to some other weird obscure account of hundreds what was the purpose" when in fact the obscure accounts are so obscure that poor recollection is likeley. So a false answer or an evasive-seeming "I do not recall" becomes perjury.

It is the open ended nature of the special counsel's inquiry that makes the special counsel a constitutionally suspect appointment. Both in the current case as well as in the case regarding Mr. Clinton's alleged perjury and Secy Clinton's role in Whitewater.

The whole special counsel thing needs to be ended forever.

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 Post subject: Re: Perjury Trap
PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 1:33 pm 
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Trump should agree to testify and then just take the 5th on every question. Morgues across the country would be overwhelmed with Democrats who's heads had literally exploded.

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 Post subject: Re: Perjury Trap
PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 1:41 pm 
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nelmsm wrote:
Trump should agree to testify and then just take the 5th on every question. Morgues across the country would be overwhelmed with Democrats who's heads had literally exploded.


:lol: :lol: :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Perjury Trap
PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 2:16 pm 
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jack t ripper wrote:
nelmsm wrote:
Trump should agree to testify and then just take the 5th on every question. Morgues across the country would be overwhelmed with Democrats who's heads had literally exploded.


:lol: :lol: :lol:

I am certain that the Presidential 5th would avoid the perjury trap.

But would it help much? :roll:

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