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 Post subject: Re: Will Electric Cars Crash The Grid?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 6:41 pm 
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Culiacan Mexico wrote:
nero wrote:
Solar power is cheaper than nucular. Just copy what the EU will do; the Desertec. You have the deserts, you have the technology.

Just do it,

Seppo

From your link:

Wouldn't HVDC transmission lines impair the landscape and emit harmful electromagnetic radiation?

"With "HVDC Light" technology as from ABB, over distances above about 500 to 600 km, underground power cables only cost about 10% to 20% more than overhead power lines. Unlike HVAC, HVDC grids do not emit any electromagnetic radiation which is of importance, as it is not possible, according to the laws of physics...."



---------------------------------------------
DC Magnetic Field Health Concerns

A review of available literature and research regarding possible human health risks associated with exposure to DC (Static) magnetic fields, reveals limited concern except in very high DC field environments.

The International Commission on Non-Ionizing Radiation Protection. "Guidelines on limits of Exposure to Static Magnetic Fields". Health Physics 66: 100-106 (1994) states the following:

* People become nauseous, develop taste in mouth, vertigo, and magnetophosphenes (flickering sensation in the eyes) at 4 T (40 G)
* Pacemakers can malfunction @ at 3.1 G (this is from a German report for an unspecified model of pacemaker, most pacemakers specify higher fields to malfunction)
* Circadian rhythms are affected by merely rotating Earth's 1/2 G dc field
* Pacemaker warnings usually start at 5 G with manufacturers warning at 10 G
* Precautions for users of metallic prostheses at 30 G
* Precautions for metal tools at 30 G

http://www.fms-corp.com/healthconcerns_dcfields.php4




* Overexposures are unlikely, but fields which could be hazardous to pacemaker users or cause problems for prostheses and tool users are much more likely to be found.

The majority of concerns, both for possible health risk and safety, seem to be centered around NMR and MRI imaging systems and/or similar devices, which utilize very powerful DC magnets. Manufactures of such equipment usually provide guidelines for establishing a "5 G line" around the devices and caution that persons with pacemakers or other implanted medical devices, should stay clear of the 5 G line. An "attractive force hazard" also exists wherein nearby metallic objects can be "drawn" toward the powerful magnets and in some instances at dangerous or even fatal velocity and force. Such attractive force hazards typically include:

* Tools & compressed gas cylinders
* Prosthetic implants made of magnetizable materials (this can include machined stainless steel)
* Jewelry and some watches
* Credit cards & badges (beginning at ~10 G)

NMR and MRI manufactures also urge users of prostheses which contain metal be checked before entering areas where DC magnetic field levels exceed 30G.
--------------------------------------





I support solar, but your link seems somewhat disingenuous.


It requires a moving magnetic field to create radiation....HVDC would b a steady field surrounding the wires, hence no emissions.

Of course it's highly dubious that 60 Hz (50Hz in Europe) radio waves have any real health impacts, but that's a different story.

The larger problem with DC transmission is the difficulty in transforming DC power to different voltages efficiently.

The REAL elephant in the room is the old Ohm's Law....too much loss to simply making the wire warm the whole length ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Will Electric Cars Crash The Grid?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 6:42 pm 
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nero wrote:
Culiacan Mexico wrote:
...
I support solar, but your link seems somewhat disingenuous.

I am not a specialist, but I think that the health risks with HVAC are much higher than HVDC, not to mention ABB's HVDC light. And notice that Desertec is planned to be implemented in socialistic Europe with all kind of health and other regulations. So I am not really so worried.

Anyway there are many HVDC power lines around to world, and I have not seen any notion of their health risks. There are several lines in Sweden and one in Finland. I suspect that you are just too conservative here. ;)

Regards,

Seppo

PS. Consider the health risks here: Image


The only health risk there is if one of the lines fell on you.

60 Hz radio waves have not been shown to any effect at all on organic tissue.


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 Post subject: Re: Will Electric Cars Crash The Grid?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 7:47 pm 
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AngryOldMan wrote:
Its only mildly more expensive than coal from mine to light bulb over the life of the reactor.


If you can convince investors to differ payment for 50 years, then more power to you. But the only entity willing to take that kind of rate of return is the government ("Socialized Electricity!").


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 Post subject: Re: Will Electric Cars Crash The Grid?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 11:19 am 
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Veer wrote:
AngryOldMan wrote:
Its only mildly more expensive than coal from mine to light bulb over the life of the reactor.


If you can convince investors to differ payment for 50 years, then more power to you. But the only entity willing to take that kind of rate of return is the government ("Socialized Electricity!").

Perhaps investors want zero tax on capital gains and dividends? ;)

And "little" subsidies and ...

OK, let's forget it,

Seppo

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 Post subject: Re: Will Electric Cars Crash The Grid?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 1:18 pm 
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Veer wrote:
AngryOldMan wrote:
Its only mildly more expensive than coal from mine to light bulb over the life of the reactor.


If you can convince investors to differ payment for 50 years, then more power to you. But the only entity willing to take that kind of rate of return is the government ("Socialized Electricity!").


Right. And that's what McCain wanted to do. And that's why I voted for him. (And frankly, its about the ONLY thing I liked about him.)

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 Post subject: Re: Will Electric Cars Crash The Grid?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 3:01 pm 
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AngryOldMan wrote:
Hey, nuclear power doesn't come cheap. If you want it, you got to be willing to pay for it. ;)



Its only mildly more expensive than coal from mine to light bulb over the life of the reactor.[/quote]

There is one huge problem with nuclear:Nobody wants a nuclear power plant in their "backyard" and a lesser reason,though still large problem,being the expense of starting to build nuclear reactors now.Most people still get their heat and electricity from the traditional sources of coal and natural gas.The same two sources that alot of state goverments and the federal want to levy punitive taxes on to promote "Green Energy" use.Those companies are not going to eat those taxes but pass them on with an estimated extra cost to consumers of 500-1500 dollars a year.

I highly doubt it will be very green though as huge swaths of developed and undeveloped land will have to built over with panels and windmills to even begin to meet energy needs here and another nasty side effect,with windmills,being the deaths of large numbers of birds.

I would love to see a few more nuclear plants but those that count don't want them.Not the consumer,not the enviromental movement,and not the goverment.Instead they all have their hopes pinned on a pipe dream of wind and solar providing unlimited and cheap energy now.

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 Post subject: Re: Will Electric Cars Crash The Grid?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 3:30 pm 
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Comrade Ogilvy wrote:
Quote:
The global enviromental movement is not about that though.What it is about is bringing parity between nations not by bringing up the have nots by by lowering the standard of living of the haves.With the privileged few,who know better,garnering all the amenities of modern life such as clean water,food,electricity,higher education while condeming the rest to get their drinking water from the same gutters that they defecate in.



So how do you bring this parity between nations?

P.S. Sorry about the Nazi thing but conservatives have been called fascist for ages.


Kyoto,self imposed Cap and Trades,UN resolutions,brings about parity.

Developed industrilazed nations must be made to crimp their economies so that undeveloped or just industralizing nations can be given a pass to bring their economies up to the same point by lowering the threshold.You ever notice in all the talk that India/China/Indonesia always must be granted excemptions while the US or EU must signifigantly curb their emmissions?One of the reasons always given is that enviromental laws will inhibit the growth of their economies and that the latter can suffer the hit with a only some decrease in the standard of living.

I like my standard of living.I love the fact that during the summer i can turn on the fan when it hits the 90's or during the winter i don't have to burn dung to keep warm when it drops into the 20's or that my drinking water isn't completely filled with human waste.When you hear a discussion on standards of living concerning the enviroment,concerning western nations,it isn't about going without cable TV or missing out on a meal at TGIF's.It's about giving up some of the very basic things that put us above above the wretched masses of Asia and Africa because it is unfair that we have those things and they don't.

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 Post subject: Re: Will Electric Cars Crash The Grid?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 6:16 pm 
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Quote:
Will Electric Cars Crash The Grid?



Goldstein Investigation: $10 Million LAPD Electric BMWs Appear Unused Or Misused

Not if you don't use them

Quote:
“The LAPD unveiled its patrol cars of the future today.”

In a 2016 well-choreographed press conference, LAPD Chief Charlie Beck got out of an electric BMW driven by Mayor Garcetti to tout the city’s ambitious project.

“They certainly have the performance potential.”

BMW won the contract to provide electric cars for the LAPD. One hundred delivered each year for three years, to be used right now for administrative purposes. Non-emergencies.
The department is leasing them.

The cost: $10.2 million, which includes charging stations.

“We want to be responsive to the community.”

Money well worth it according to LAPD Deputy Chief Jorge Villegas.

“It’s all a part of saving the Earth, going green … quite frankly, to try and save money for the community and the taxpayers.”


Quote:
We followed this LAPD commander driving one of the department’s fleet of electric BMWs to a nail salon.

“Is it supposed to be used for getting a manicure?”


Quote:
But our investigation of department records found some electric cars are sitting unused with only a few hundred miles on them, and with hidden cameras, we found others are allegedly being misused.



News video including an interview with a Deputy Chief of the LAPD at above link.

At first I was going to say that this is LA/CA taxpayer money being wasted so its no skin off my back, but this sounds like exactly the sort of program that the Obama administration would have chipped federaal money in for.

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 Post subject: Re: Will Electric Cars Crash The Grid?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:02 pm 
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chijohnaok wrote:

At first I was going to say that this is LA/CA taxpayer money being wasted so its no skin off my back, but this sounds like exactly the sort of program that the Obama administration would have chipped federaal money in for.


That's the kind of pricey electrical shit they've had the Fed subsidizing in general.

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 Post subject: Re: Will Electric Cars Crash The Grid?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:51 pm 
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Lithium batteries are rather toxic aren't they? Wonder what it costs t junk one of those suckers?

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