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 Post subject: Re: The Trials and Tribulations of Saint Greta Thunberg
PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2019 10:44 am 
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jack t ripper wrote:
It's a laugh riot. Nagging warmists trapped on the ground by their own hypocrisy.

Their heads would explode if you kept scheduling conferences at the most geographically distant locations conceivable.

"The 2020 International Climate Change Conference at Pitcarin" :lol:

You could sail a 15th century vessel called the Santa Maria and have the captain dress up like Columbus. Serve 'em hard tack and cold bully beef right out of the can and skanky water. Cold saltwater "showers" and everyone craps over the side. That would be the end of climate change conferences.


Scurvy might become an issue, particularly if they are into only using “locally sourced” foods.

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 Post subject: Re: The Trials and Tribulations of Saint Greta Thunberg
PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2019 10:57 am 
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jack t ripper wrote:
It's a laugh riot. Nagging warmists trapped on the ground by their own hypocrisy.

Their heads would explode if you kept scheduling conferences at the most geographically distant locations conceivable.

"The 2020 International Climate Change Conference at Pitcarin" :lol:

You could sail a 15th century vessel called the Santa Maria and have the captain dress up like Columbus. Serve 'em hard tack and cold bully beef right out of the can and skanky water. Cold saltwater "showers" and everyone craps over the side. That would be the end of climate change conferences.


Its posts like these which make me hate the 20,000 cap.

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 Post subject: Re: The Trials and Tribulations of Saint Greta Thunberg
PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2019 11:02 am 
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"We are asking those participants in the 2020 Gaia Love Cruise who live in Mediterranean climates to please bring a non-plastic, sustainable natural fiber bag of locally sourced limes for your shipmates. Also, please bring a supply of spontaneously shed bark from a non-endangered tree species for your toilet needs.

See you in Pitcarin!

Greta"

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 Post subject: Re: The Trials and Tribulations of Saint Greta Thunberg
PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2019 11:07 am 
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jack t ripper wrote:
"We are asking those participants in the 2020 Gaia Love Cruise who live in Mediterranean climates to please bring a non-plastic, sustainable natural fiber bag of locally sourced limes for your shipmates. Also, please bring a supply of spontaneously shed bark from a non-endangered tree species for your toilet needs.

See you in Pitcarin!

Greta"


:lol:

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 Post subject: Re: The Trials and Tribulations of Saint Greta Thunberg
PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2019 11:27 am 
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Hilarious thing on NPR. They have a chick on who actually looked carefully at the "carbon cost" of grocery bags.

NPR host: What exactly IS the best choice for someone concerned about the environment and global warming. What about recycled paper bags?

Science chick: Well, typically the recycled portion is only a small fraction of the material as the cost in both energy and dollars is both much higher for recycled paper when you factor in pick-up and processing.

NPR host: <zzzzt..faint electrical shorting sound> Well, how do you recycle it then?

Science chick: Well, I'm sorry to say, it is environmentally more sound to throw paper refuse in the landfill.

NPR host: <zzzzzt...pop....zzzzt> Well, what about a recyclable bag?

Science chick: That depends on how much you use it. A natural fiber bag is several orders of magnitude higher in carbon footprint to produce than a paper bag. I calculate you would have to use a natural fiber bag 200-500 x to overcome the carbon debit.

NPR host: Well, if you go to the store twice a week that's only...ummmm.....carry the 11....um.... 2 to 3 years.

Science chick: Yes, but that is only true if you never wash it. If you are using Colorado River or Owens river water from the California aqueduct you will at least triple that carbon usage when factoring pumping and purification and system maintenance.

NPR host:
<zzzzzzzzzz...zzzzzzzzzzzzztttt..pop....bang...whiff of smoke> Well, what IS the best choice then??? <sense of panic is evident>

Science chick: Surprisingly, the single use thin plastic bag discarded in a landfill is the lowest carbon and energy footprint.

NPR host: <BZZZZZZT...BANG...heavy smoke> Does not compute, does not compute, zzt...compute....I'm sorry Dave..I'm sorry Dave I can't do that.....

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 Post subject: Re: The Trials and Tribulations of Saint Greta Thunberg
PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2019 11:54 am 
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jack t ripper wrote:
Hilarious thing on NPR. They have a chick on who actually looked carefully at the "carbon cost" of grocery bags.

NPR host: What exactly IS the best choice for someone concerned about the environment and global warming. What about recycled paper bags?

Science chick: Well, typically the recycled portion is only a small fraction of the material as the cost in both energy and dollars is both much higher for recycled paper when you factor in pick-up and processing.

NPR host: <zzzzt..faint electrical shorting sound> Well, how do you recycle it then?

Science chick: Well, I'm sorry to say, it is environmentally more sound to throw paper refuse in the landfill.

NPR host: <zzzzzt...pop....zzzzt> Well, what about a recyclable bag?

Science chick: That depends on how much you use it. A natural fiber bag is several orders of magnitude higher in carbon footprint to produce than a paper bag. I calculate you would have to use a natural fiber bag 200-500 x to overcome the carbon debit.

NPR host: Well, if you go to the store twice a week that's only...ummmm.....carry the 11....um.... 2 to 3 years.

Science chick: Yes, but that is only true if you never wash it. If you are using Colorado River or Owens river water from the California aqueduct you will at least triple that carbon usage when factoring pumping and purification and system maintenance.

NPR host:
<zzzzzzzzzz...zzzzzzzzzzzzztttt..pop....bang...whiff of smoke> Well, what IS the best choice then??? <sense of panic is evident>

Science chick: Surprisingly, the single use thin plastic bag discarded in a landfill is the lowest carbon and energy footprint.

NPR host: <BZZZZZZT...BANG...heavy smoke> Does not compute, does not compute, zzt...compute....I'm sorry Dave..I'm sorry Dave I can't do that.....


Had a similar conversation about recycling with my uppity colleagues in Montreal many years ago. I didn't have actual numbers at hand, but I had the questions, and they didn't want to know the answers! :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: The Trials and Tribulations of Saint Greta Thunberg
PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2019 11:58 am 
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jack t ripper wrote:
Hilarious thing on NPR. They have a chick on who actually looked carefully at the "carbon cost" of grocery bags.

NPR host: What exactly IS the best choice for someone concerned about the environment and global warming. What about recycled paper bags?

Science chick: Well, typically the recycled portion is only a small fraction of the material as the cost in both energy and dollars is both much higher for recycled paper when you factor in pick-up and processing.

NPR host: <zzzzt..faint electrical shorting sound> Well, how do you recycle it then?

Science chick: Well, I'm sorry to say, it is environmentally more sound to throw paper refuse in the landfill.

NPR host: <zzzzzt...pop....zzzzt> Well, what about a recyclable bag?

Science chick: That depends on how much you use it. A natural fiber bag is several orders of magnitude higher in carbon footprint to produce than a paper bag. I calculate you would have to use a natural fiber bag 200-500 x to overcome the carbon debit.

NPR host: Well, if you go to the store twice a week that's only...ummmm.....carry the 11....um.... 2 to 3 years.

Science chick: Yes, but that is only true if you never wash it. If you are using Colorado River or Owens river water from the California aqueduct you will at least triple that carbon usage when factoring pumping and purification and system maintenance.

NPR host:
<zzzzzzzzzz...zzzzzzzzzzzzztttt..pop....bang...whiff of smoke> Well, what IS the best choice then??? <sense of panic is evident>

Science chick: Surprisingly, the single use thin plastic bag discarded in a landfill is the lowest carbon and energy footprint.

NPR host: <BZZZZZZT...BANG...heavy smoke> Does not compute, does not compute, zzt...compute....I'm sorry Dave..I'm sorry Dave I can't do that.....


That's funny!

I used to use a small "natural fiber" bag from the local Publix supermarket.
As it was actually too small to fit much inside it now mostly sits in my trunk holding miscellaneous car related stuff.

I mostly use two of these Costco cooler bags:

Image

The exterior is made out of some sort of cloth/fiber; the handles are very strong and the interior is vinyl, which can be wiped down for you germophobes.
There is also some sort of thin insulation between the interior vinyl and exterior fiber layers.

You can fit ALOT of stuff into one of these, plus they help keep your frozen and refrigerated stuff cool on the way home from the market--which is important in Central Florida where the average high temperature is greater than 80F for roughly 9 months of the year (and 88+ F for 5 of those months).

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 Post subject: Re: The Trials and Tribulations of Saint Greta Thunberg
PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2019 12:00 pm 
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Cosmic justice that the environmentally most desirable is a plastic bag. :lol:

Of course, it does take forever to degrade. The best solution is less packaging.

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 Post subject: Re: The Trials and Tribulations of Saint Greta Thunberg
PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2019 12:04 pm 
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My wife buys big plastic bags to throw away the small plastic bags. :lol:

The grocery industry in California helped SPONSOR a bag fee (10 cents) for paper or plastic bags at checkout. They make 9.5 cents on paper and 9.99 cents on plastic.

And the stupid voters fell for it to "save the sea turtles" even though over 99% of the plastic in the Pacific comes from Asia.

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 Post subject: Re: The Trials and Tribulations of Saint Greta Thunberg
PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2019 12:19 pm 
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Quote:
Of course, it does take forever to degrade.


Mebbe not. The plastic itself is highly degradable. Some are made of fast decaying polymers derived from vegetable products such as corn starch. The problem is that landfills tend to be compacted, driven over, and anaerobic. So the things that break down plastics easily can't do their job.

About 20-25 years ago in town here, they degraded an old landfill just by drilling lots of holes and pumping in air and water. The damb thing decomposed something like ten meters. Of course, because it was an old landfill and had some toxic metals, the remaining fill had to be carted away when the property was redeveloped. But the mere fact of water, oxygenation, and the introduction of some fairly ordinary bacteria did for most of the organic stuff. It turns out that doing it right generates a lot of methane. Most dumps in the US now capture the methane. I saw one in MA where they burned it off after capture. Where I live, the methane goes to local power plant and is used to make electricity.

Garbage seems like the kind of thing that automation, properly applied, after a bunch of up front (probably Federal) investment, could really solve. We could probably all benefit from an Apollo Garbage Project.

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