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 Post subject: Re: How robust is Sweden's democracy? (Clue: not very)
PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 2:40 pm 
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Nero thinks the U.S. is Imperial Rome . . . meanwhile I just came back from performing my civic duty, a form of liberty apparently still unknown to the Finns . . .

Your overwhelming idiocy is a source of never-ending mirth.

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 Post subject: Re: How robust is Sweden's democracy? (Clue: not very)
PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 3:19 pm 
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Anthropoid wrote:
Nero thinks the U.S. is Imperial Rome . . . meanwhile I just came back from performing my civic duty, a form of liberty apparently still unknown to the Finns . . .

Your overwhelming idiocy is a source of never-ending mirth.

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 Post subject: Re: How robust is Sweden's democracy? (Clue: not very)
PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 3:44 pm 
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chijohnaok wrote:
nero wrote:
...
Trump definitely needs a coin of his own. To celebrate all his pussy grabbing ways, decorated with yellow rain. :lol:

Image


My bold emphasis above.

That is NOT going to happen anytime soon.

Quote:
Question: Why are Only Dead Presidents Featured on U.S. Coins?
The United States has a long tradition of placing only the portraits of dead people on its money. Learn why living people are never depicted on U.S. coins, and why the U.S. always uses portraits of dead Presidents rather than living ones on its circulating coins, such as the upcoming new Presidential Dollar.

Answer:
The main reason the U.S. is putting only dead Presidents on the new dollars (or dead people on any other coin) is tradition.


Although this tradition has been legislated into law now, from the very beginning of our nation's founding, patriotic men felt that it was improper to honor any living person by putting their image on the legal tender currency, especially the circulating coins. George Washington declined when our young nation wanted his portrait on the first U.S. silver dollar, which was the start of this long and still unbroken tradition.

https://www.thesprucecrafts.com/only-de ... ins-768852

Quote:
A Legacy of Dead Presidents
The main reason that the U.S. has featured very few living people on their coins stems back to our Revolutionary War Forefathers. One way for a king to proclaim his sovereignty over his subjects was to have his effigy struck into the coins of his realm. For the American colonists, who were predominantly anti-royalists, the image of the king on British coins they were forced to use in everyday transactions was a painful reminder of what they considered his tyranny and oppression.

When the newly-formed United States of America began to mint its own coins, the symbolic image of the “goddess” of Liberty was chosen, usually accompanied by an Eagle - the new national symbol (even though Benjamin Franklin had lobbied hard for the turkey!) When the first U.S. dollar coin was ready to be struck, George Washington actually declined the request to allow his portrait on the coin. Washington did not want any hint of royalty to creep into his fledgling Republic government – and his refusal set a precedent for all future U.S. Presidents.

It was not until 1909 that the first deceased president appeared on any U.S. coin. That year, to honor the 100th anniversary of Abraham Lincoln’s birth, the Lincoln Cent was struck and circulated. This coin was originally intended to be a special limited commemorative issue, but it proved so popular that it has continued to be struck every year to this very day! Following Lincoln’s lead, other deceased presidents soon followed on various U.S. coin denominations.

Eventually, the tradition of not featuring living persons on U.S. coins was formalized by federal law. This current law requires a U.S. President to be deceased for at least two years before they are eligible for inclusion in the ongoing Presidential Dollars series.

https://www.govmint.com/coin-authority/ ... on-a-coin/

If is the law, there is time to change those stupid laws before the Blue Tsunami.

And it does not to have to be a cheap coin.

Image

It can be gold platinum Trump coin, an investment opportunity of million dollars. With golden rain in gold. And on the flip side the Trump coats of arms with a golf club and greedy weasels.

Image

So it goes.

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 Post subject: Re: How robust is Sweden's democracy? (Clue: not very)
PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 6:06 pm 
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Putin has the explanation of all our woes though:

Quote:
EU countries are a favourite subject on Russian state TV. Every evening, the ‘gospel’ is watched for hours on end by millions in Russia, but also by Russian-speaking people in Eastern Europe, the Baltic countries, Scandinavia and the Caucasus.

For three and a half years, NGO Ukraine Crisis Media Centre (UCMC) monitored the most popular daily news bulletins and talk shows on Channel One, NTV and Russia-1. Monitored content was converted into text in real time and automatically filtered by keywords. The filtered data was then ordered by algorithms into categories on a positive-neutral-negative scale.

The result (a total of 22,711 negative mentions) revealed a set of recurring narratives depicting Europe as a decaying, insecure place plagued with protests, terrorism and refugees.


Quote:

While the six ‘super-narratives’ are consistent across the board, not all countries are treated equally. When France is in their sight, Russian TV hosts are inclined to portray it as constantly shaken by terrorist attacks, massive protests or simply as a dangerous, unstable place to live. For the Caucasus countries, as well as Moldova and Belarus, two extra colours are added to the palette – looming military conflicts and Russia as the ‘protecting elder brother‘. In the same shows, Nazism is purportedly making a comeback in the Baltic countries, Baltic Russian-speaking populations have limited access to basic rights and Soviet history is subject to revision. Norway and Finland apparently steal Russian children, and moral values in Sweden are eroded by gender equality.


https://euvsdisinfo.eu/portraits-of-europe-on-russian-tv-mother-nature-is-punishing-immoral-eu-countries/


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 Post subject: Re: How robust is Sweden's democracy? (Clue: not very)
PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 6:17 pm 
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Well, if you were an authoritarian regime in control of a frankly "far-too-vast" and far too diverse "republic" who had managed to retain rule "democratically" for some 18 years by virtue of essentially a strong marketing and PR branch (which ingeniously taps into the ancient Russian appreciation of the strong man figure and the national hero tropes), would YOU be telling the truth about the nations to the west where being gay was NOT illegal, and where nearly every single index of quality of life was a standard deviation higher!? Even fucking Poland, which was literally turned into rubble in the 1940s and decimated by genocide, rape, murder and slavery and then tossed into the Soviet Union prison camp for some 45+ years is a _BETTER_ place to live than Moscow (much less any of the underprivileged hinterlands of Russia).

You bring up this stuff about Russia like it is some kind of revelation or something we Yanks are not aware of!? How quickly Sweden seems to have forgotten this little episode in history called "THE COLD WAR," in which, oh that's right . . . Sweden "stayed out of it . . ." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_neutrality

You seem like a nice enough Wulfir, but jeeze . . .

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 Post subject: Re: How robust is Sweden's democracy? (Clue: not very)
PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2018 11:05 am 
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Anthropoid wrote:
How quickly Sweden seems to have forgotten this little episode in history called "THE COLD WAR," in which, oh that's right . . . Sweden "stayed out of it . . ." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_neutrality


Not sure how you figure Sweden stayed out of the cold war - but I'd say you're right about the short memory. :D


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 Post subject: Re: How robust is Sweden's democracy? (Clue: not very)
PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2018 12:34 pm 
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Didn’t Sweden have the fourth largest airforce in the world during the Cold War?

Something like that. Armed neutrality, Washington would be proud.t

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 Post subject: Re: How robust is Sweden's democracy? (Clue: not very)
PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2018 12:41 pm 
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wulfir wrote:
Anthropoid wrote:
How quickly Sweden seems to have forgotten this little episode in history called "THE COLD WAR," in which, oh that's right . . . Sweden "stayed out of it . . ." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_neutrality


Not sure how you figure Sweden stayed out of the cold war - but I'd say you're right about the short memory. :D


I just go by what I have readily at hand. Not an expert on the Cold War, much less Baltic Cold War details. Here is what the wiki page has to say:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_n ... e_Cold_War
Quote:
Sweden maintained its policy of neutrality after WWII, despite substantial cooperation with the West. During the early Cold War, this policy was maintained even though Sweden's leaders understood that neutrality would probably fail in a third world war. The aim of the policy was to avoid the violent initial nuclear exchange between the superpowers. This was the rationale behind Sweden's policy of neutrality until the late 1960s with the advent of second strike capability and nuclear parity.[3]

Initially after the end of World War II, Sweden quietly pursued an aggressive independent nuclear weapons program involving plutonium production and nuclear secrets acquisition from all nuclear powers, until the 1960s, when it was abandoned as cost-prohibitive. During the Cold War Sweden appeared to maintain a dual approach to thermonuclear weapons. Publicly, the strict neutrality policy was forcefully maintained, but unofficially strong ties were purportedly kept with the U.S. Sweden, for instance, cooperated extensively with U.S. intelligence: "Though officially neutral, Sweden in fact built very close ties to both NATO and the US security establishment in the late 1940s and early 1950s and was deeply involved in cold war spying operations."[4]

It was hoped that the U.S. would use conventional and nuclear weapons to strike at Soviet staging areas in the occupied Baltic states in case of a Soviet attack on Sweden. Over time and due to the official neutrality policy, fewer and fewer Swedish military officials were aware of the military cooperation with the west, making such cooperation in the event of war increasingly difficult. At the same time Swedish defensive planning was completely based on help from abroad in the event of war. Later research has shown that every publicly available war-game training, included the scenario that Sweden was under attack from the Soviets, and would rely on NATO forces for defence.[5] The fact that it was not permissible to mention this aloud eventually led to the Swedish armed forces becoming highly misbalanced. For example, a strong ability to defend against an amphibious invasion was maintained, while an ability to strike at inland staging areas was almost completely absent.[6]

In the early 1960s U.S. nuclear submarines armed with mid-range nuclear missiles of type Polaris A-1 were deployed outside the Swedish west coast. Range and safety considerations made this a good area from which to launch a retaliatory nuclear strike on Moscow. The submarines had to be very close to the Swedish coast to hit their intended targets though. As a consequence of this, in 1960, the same year that the submarines were first deployed, the U.S. provided Sweden with a military security guarantee. The U.S. promised to provide military force in aid of Sweden in case of Soviet aggression. This guarantee was kept from the Swedish public until 1994, when a Swedish research commission found evidence for it. As part of the military cooperation the U.S. provided much help in the development of the Saab 37 Viggen, as a strong Swedish air force was seen as necessary to keep Soviet anti-submarine aircraft from operating in the missile launch area. In return Swedish scientists at the Royal Institute of Technology made considerable contributions to enhancing the targeting performance of the Polaris missiles.[7]


True "neutrality" probably never exists. Every historical instance I can think of suggests that. So yeah, Sweden was more "West-aligned" than not throughout the whole of the Cold War, and became more so after 1960 (cryptically). But allowing the U.S. to operate its Polaris subs "very close" to the Swedish coastal border--in exchange for promises of assistance and technical support--just ain't the same as being a member of NATO and/or "allowing" a NATO military installation on Swedish soil.

Whether this reflects a Swedish desire to "have your neutrality and the protection of Western alliances too" or something less cynical I cannot say.

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 Post subject: Re: How robust is Sweden's democracy? (Clue: not very)
PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 1:47 pm 
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Anthropoid wrote:
...and became more so after 1960 (cryptically).


The Swedish post WWII neutrality (or lack of neutrality) between 1946 until the 1960s have been fairly well mapped out. There is less public knowledge about the later stages of the cold war - the 70s and 80s. :D

Anthropoid wrote:
But allowing the U.S. to operate its Polaris subs "very close" to the Swedish coastal border--in exchange for promises of assistance and technical support--just ain't the same as being a member of NATO and/or "allowing" a NATO military installation on Swedish soil.


Well, I've read so many complaints on this board about how worthless the NATO-member states have been and how expensive in blood and treassure establishing NATO installations if they happen to be US ones (and only the US does this sort of thing in any meaningful manner :mrgreen: ) - so I fail to see your point. Take a quick glance at a map - if you were to garrison Sweden as well you're looking at pretty much doubling the NATO front. Where would the money have come from? You would have had to tax the living fawk out of the New England region. Probably Arizona too...


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 Post subject: Re: How robust is Sweden's democracy? (Clue: not very)
PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 6:17 pm 
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Don't confuse me with "so many complaints on this board." I'm not bat shit crazy when it comes to U.S. military expenditure and forward readiness. NATO clearly played a salutary role in furthering the well-being of humanity, including the United States and the state of Arizona too.

Getting back to my point: Yes Wulfir, we Yanks (or at least those of us on this board) are quite aware that Putin is a piece of shit. He is the epitome of the canny dictator, with only as many scruples as are needed to maintain plausible deniability and some semblance of acceptability on the international stage. The USSR no longer exists, but he certainly would LOVE for it to reborn, if there was anyway at all he could pull it off.

I am personally confident that Trump is aware of these facts too, and is not blithely ignoring them. Rather, he is playing the diplomatic game in a different way than Obama: less bending of the knee, more salesman happy talk, AND more realpolitik teeth behind the smile.

If the prevailing wisdom in Sweden were not that the utterly ridiculous "Russian collusion" nonsense was actually plausible, maybe Sweden could see that Donald Trump could well be the best thing to happen to them (and Finland, and Norway, and all the Euro zone) for decades. But that would involve lots more people taking their heads out of their aholes and insisting to their regional EU Commissar about policy changes that are probably inconceivable at this point.

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