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 Post subject: Re: Kavanaugh Supreme Court nominee
PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 11:23 am 
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mdiehl wrote:
No, you were not. As usual, when caught making a factual error, rather than man up and admit your error, you attempt to evade responsibility for your errors. As usual, you did not know the basic facts.

As to the Constitution, it's a framework for governance, it is not THE government. And there are some age lines. The Federalists, it turns out, were quite deliberate in their efforts to sneer down any opposition but in the end, they LOST the debate, because the Bill of Rights became the sine qua non of the constitutional convention. The convention would not have agreed to forward the document to the states without an agreement to craft a Bill of Rights, nor would the many states have ratified it (Virginia and Massachusetts would have run-not-walked away absent a Bill of Rights).

In my view, time has proven that the Antifederalists were correct in every concern. The only reason why the United States still exists is BECAUSE OF the Bill of Rights. Without that, the US government would be just another government and the US would be just another unstable nation.

Indeed, come the day when leftists and reactionaries succeed in substantially eliminating the Bill of Rights (and the 13th and 14th Amendments), the US will cease to exist. I think that is why leftists in particular despise the 2nd Amendment. If they can succeed in disarming everyone, then the rest of the Bill of Rights becomes just so much negotiable, interpretable bullshit, to be worked around in their effort to reinstate government derived from the consent of the few and to the detriment of the many. Shit, we're almost there now.

Incorrect.

I was answering to JTR.

jack t ripper wrote:
The Constitution is 225 years old because the nation is 225 years old. That is a non-random association.

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 Post subject: Re: Kavanaugh Supreme Court nominee
PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 11:34 am 
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No, you were not. No one here is fooled. You said the constitution went back to 1776. The replies to your idiocy followed your original false claim.

As to the nation ... the United States of America ... the claim is quite correct that the Nation and the Constitution are the same age. That is because a nation named the USA as organized under the Articles of Confederation was a completely different nation from the United States organized under the Constitution. Under the Articles of Confederation there was no president and no supreme court. There was no bill of rights. The "central" government (congress) had no tax authority, no authority to maintain an armed forces, and no authority to regulate commerce in any way.

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 Post subject: Re: Kavanaugh Supreme Court nominee
PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 11:42 am 
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mdiehl wrote:
No, you were not. No one here is fooled. You said the constitution went back to 1776. The replies to your idiocy followed your original false claim.

As to the nation ... the United States of America ... the claim is quite correct that the Nation and the Constitution are the same age. That is because a nation named the USA as organized under the Articles of Confederation was a completely different nation from the United States organized under the Constitution. Under the Articles of Confederation there was no president and no supreme court. There was no bill of rights. The "central" government (congress) had no tax authority, no authority to maintain an armed forces, and no authority to regulate commerce in any way.

No, I did not. I was referring to the age of the nation.

I certainly know better than you what I mean. ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Kavanaugh Supreme Court nominee
PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 11:44 am 
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No. You're just attempting to alter perception of "what you meant" in order to avoid admitting that you're wrong. We know what you meant the first time. You were wrong.

Actually, you're wrong on BOTH claims, so you're still wrong. You're just twice as wrong as you were twenty minutes ago, and no less an idiot than you were then.

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 Post subject: Re: Kavanaugh Supreme Court nominee
PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 11:45 am 
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Treaty of Paris signed 1783. 225 years in September. Treaty of Paris ratified by the Congress of the Confederation 1784. Note that is was not the Congress of the United States yet. Also, there were no formal borders until the Treaty of Paris.

So, as once can see, there is a definitional problem. Was it a revolutionary movement before then? Probably France recognized the US sooner but I'm not sure of that. Most Americans would say 1776, of course but that would not be true if the revolution failed, would it?

In any event, the idea that you throw out the Constitution because it's "old" is painfully stupid. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Kavanaugh Supreme Court nominee
PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 11:49 am 
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Nemo;

Don't argue about the Constitution with mdiehl..you will lose badly. In fact, I think you just did. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Kavanaugh Supreme Court nominee
PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 12:00 pm 
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And the idea that the Bill of Rights is a 'problem' is the stupidest analysis of them all. If one were to tear up the Constitution, the major part one would KEEP is the Bill of Rights (and, I would add, the 13th, 14th, and 19th amendments).

The key problems with the US Constitution are these:

1. The US Supreme Court appointees are political appointees. There's may be no work around for this. The vetting process is supposed to result in nominees that protect the constitution, but instead they tend to produce candidates that promote more Federal power, with varying degrees of pushback.

2. There is no practical mechanism to contain the Executive Branch. Andrew Jackson proved that when he famously implemented the Indian Removal Act despite a US Supreme Court finding that the "act" was unconstitutional. Executive orders, executive de facto authority to start wars, executive de facto authority to form military alliances... these are a huge problem.

3. The Commerce clause in particular has been abused both by Congress and the Executive Branch to expand Federal Power in comparison with the states and the US Supreme Court has gone along with that expansion.

So if I could make changes they'd be these:

1. An amendment that applies the Commerce Clause only to economic relations between the United States and other nations.

2. An amendment that the Executive Branch may make no personnel deployments into lands outside of the lands of the USA without formal consent in the form of an act of congress.

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 Post subject: Re: Kavanaugh Supreme Court nominee
PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 12:14 pm 
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The problem with idea number 2 is one can imagine true emergencies which could not wait for Congress to act, particularly with acts of terror, but you are right that the power of the Executive Branch is problematic...and it is not only the President. The agencies are delegated so much power by the Congress in drafting of laws that a few pinheads in Washington can affect the lives of millions of Americans.

In the case of DACA we are left with the absurd situation of a court ruling that the President cannot undo an unconstitutional act of the previous President.

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 Post subject: Re: Kavanaugh Supreme Court nominee
PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 12:18 pm 
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Clearly, the Bill of Rights is the most important part of the Constitution. Nemo thinks of a "right" as some free shit from the "government" that is guaranteed to everyone. I think he literally cannot understand the concept of "liberty"

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 Post subject: Re: Kavanaugh Supreme Court nominee
PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 12:21 pm 
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the resident can get creative ... use of low moderate yield nukes ... 100-200 kilo tons ... could have desired effects without having to "make [no] personnel deployments into lands outside of the lands of the USA ... "

For instance tac nucing T2HMs and The gangland capitol of the Taliban and where ever we thought uncle bin was that day ... 4 targets, in exchange for the 4 targets they attempted to hit ... WMD in exchange for WMD ... would be an example of such creativity. Rubbling T2HM and the capitol and the battlehindquarters of the enemy would be almost an exact tit for tat which is actually 100% legal within International "Law" if anyone cares ...

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