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 Post subject: Re: Kavanaugh Supreme Court nominee
PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 7:57 pm 
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Anthropoid wrote:
(Snip)

And no we are not something other than a "democracy;" being a "constituational republic or any other fucking term doesn't make us NOT a democracy. We are a fucking goddamned democracy. :D
I disagree, but I would. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Kavanaugh Supreme Court nominee
PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 7:58 pm 
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Quote:
"I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the
Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."


:mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: Kavanaugh Supreme Court nominee
PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 7:59 pm 
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Democracy is a general term. Efforts to make it otherwise remain in vain.

There are many specific social orders and political organizations which reflect the general quality of "being democratic." The term is not, should not, and never was intended to mean only a specific type of government, just read the definition and its etymology. It is written right there on the previous page.

You can disagree all you want. You are just plain wrong ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Kavanaugh Supreme Court nominee
PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 8:01 pm 
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chijohnaok wrote:
Quote:
"I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the
Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."


:mrgreen:


Yes a "Republic" can be a democracy. So can a kingdom. So can a territory. So can a lot of specific social/political systems. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Kavanaugh Supreme Court nominee
PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 8:10 pm 
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I agree with Anthro. That is a very narrow definition of democracy. Now, clearly, it isn't like a
"town vote" with 61 people where they all meet face to face, but it is still the voters who make the major calls...and when the elected representatives IGNORE the voters...they throw their asses out.

There is also no doubt that public opinion sways the votes of the Congress and the positions of the President.

The authors completely ignore the historical truism that the Senate system was PURPOSELY designed to preserve the influence of smaller states.

As for DC...that was intentional too. That was designed to limit the influence of the literal swamp that was DC

Puerto Rico? Jesus, you can't blame Jefferson for that. :lol:

Those dumbasses have voted NOT to become a state 5 times.

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 Post subject: Re: Kavanaugh Supreme Court nominee
PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 8:13 pm 
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The point is that the evolved historical meaning of "democracy" is that the will of the voters determine the direction of government., not a regent, or a dictator or a triumvirate.

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 Post subject: Re: Kavanaugh Supreme Court nominee
PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 9:56 pm 
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The aus were from the Jacobin... a rabidly anti- rights autocracy advocate rag. Both of them offered a line of talk about the constitution that is straight out of critical race "theory" cryptofascist dogma.

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 Post subject: Re: Kavanaugh Supreme Court nominee
PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 8:45 am 
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jack t ripper wrote:
The Bill of Rights was finally ratified in 1793. The Bill of Rights has the same legal standing as the Constitution and when the SCOTUS reviews a case in which there is a dispute they used the term 'constitutionality". The Bill of Rights is arguably more important than the Constitution itself.

According to wiki the Bill of Rights was ratified December 15, 1791. :roll:

Just to a nitpick a little. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Kavanaugh Supreme Court nominee
PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 9:20 am 
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nero wrote:
jack t ripper wrote:
The Bill of Rights was finally ratified in 1793. The Bill of Rights has the same legal standing as the Constitution and when the SCOTUS reviews a case in which there is a dispute they used the term 'constitutionality". The Bill of Rights is arguably more important than the Constitution itself.

According to wiki the Bill of Rights was ratified December 15, 1791. :roll:

Just to a nitpick a little. :lol:




Umm...no, that is not what it says. Vermont was admitted to statehood in 1791. As the State Legislature of Vermont had previously approved those articles in the current Bill of Rights (before their vote actually counted for anything). This brought the majority of the "several states" to 3/4 approval so the Congress formally accepted the "ratification" of the current Bill of Rights in January 1792. Rhode Island was the last of the 13 Colonies to RATIFY the current Bill of Rights in 1793.

There are two stages of "ratification"....approval individually by the State Legislatures and achievement of the 3/4 supermajority looking at the "several states". In this case the latter was completed before the former.

Note also that Article 1 (not the same as the 1st Amendment)as approved by the Congress in 1782 was NEVER ratified and is technically before the states for approval NOW...except now you need 38 states.

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 Post subject: Re: Kavanaugh Supreme Court nominee
PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 9:27 am 
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jack t ripper wrote:
nero wrote:
...
According to wiki the Bill of Rights was ratified December 15, 1791. :roll:

Just to a nitpick a little. :lol:




Umm...no, that is not what it says. Vermont was admitted to statehood in 1791. As the State Legislature of Vermont had previously approved those articles in the current Bill of Rights (before their vote actually counted for anything). This brought the majority of the "several states" to 3/4 approval so the Congress formally accepted the "ratification" of the current Bill of Rights in January 1792. Rhode Island was the last of the 13 Colonies to RATIFY the current Bill of Rights in 1793.

There are two stages of "ratification"....approval individually by the State Legislatures and achievement of the 3/4 supermajority looking at the "several states". In this case the latter was completed before the former.

Note also that Article 1 (not the same as the 1st Amendment)as approved by the Congress in 1782 was NEVER ratified and is technically before the states for approval NOW...except now you need 38 states.

You seem to make everything so complicated. :lol:

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