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 Post subject: Re: Italian election explained
PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 1:02 pm 
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It is an effect of the EU. Now the national governments and institutions don't have any more a real power. The main things are decided at the European level, with the Commission or the ECB for example. So now, the people trust less their own government, seeing them as weak, unable to take a real decision. The main victim of that system is the social democracy, which is desappearing in Europe.


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 Post subject: Re: Italian election explained
PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 1:03 pm 
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The ONLY legitimate reason for any political party is that there is not ONLY one party. If one honestly believes he/she/we need "a party"--above and beyond being a citizen of the sovereign state and sharing the rights of every other citizen of that sovereign--then he/she/we in truth wants either (a) a new sovereign; or (b) totalitarianism in which he/she/they's "party" is the one party.

Parties cause people who would otherwise find common interest to find reason for conflict. The whole fucking point of forming a party is to pursue what one perceives to be a different set of interests from some other set of your countrymen.

If I were God Emperor of Earth, I would abolish all parties; no political parties whatsoever allowed. If you wish to have a voice then you express it as a member of your society and you appeal to that society as a whole.

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 Post subject: Re: Italian election explained
PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 1:07 pm 
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Anthropoid wrote:
The ONLY legitimate reason for any political party is that there is not ONLY one party. If one honestly believes he/she/we need "a party"--above and beyond being a citizen of the sovereign state and sharing the rights of every other citizen of that sovereign--then he/she/we in truth wants either (a) a new sovereign; or (b) totalitarianism in which he/she/they's "party" is the one party.

Parties cause people who would otherwise find common interest to find reason for conflict. The whole fucking point of forming a party is to pursue what one perceives to be a different set of interests from some other set of your countrymen.

If I were God Emperor of Earth, I would abolish all parties; no political parties whatsoever allowed. If you wish to have a voice then you express it as a member of your society and you appeal to that society as a whole.


Appealing any divisive issue to your society would, by it's nature, divide them into at least two camps, or "parties". Yes or no.

And every governmental proposal is a divisive issue.

It's just the natural way of things.

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 Post subject: Re: Italian election explained
PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 1:10 pm 
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LaPalice wrote:
It is an effect of the EU. Now the national governments and institutions don't have any more a real power. The main things are decided at the European level, with the Commission or the ECB for example. So now, the people trust less their own government, seeing them as weak, unable to take a real decision. The main victim of that system is the social democracy, which is desappearing in Europe.


Even worse, now that so many EU aristocrats are running the show.

How many of those are even elected now? Seems the citizens of the EU are losing their democratic representation in government at a steady pace. The ruling class is taking over, and damn the plebs' self-determination.

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Last edited by NefariousKoel on Sun Mar 04, 2018 1:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Italian election explained
PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 1:12 pm 
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NefariousKoel wrote:
Anthropoid wrote:
The ONLY legitimate reason for any political party is that there is not ONLY one party. If one honestly believes he/she/we need "a party"--above and beyond being a citizen of the sovereign state and sharing the rights of every other citizen of that sovereign--then he/she/we in truth wants either (a) a new sovereign; or (b) totalitarianism in which he/she/they's "party" is the one party.

Parties cause people who would otherwise find common interest to find reason for conflict. The whole fucking point of forming a party is to pursue what one perceives to be a different set of interests from some other set of your countrymen.

If I were God Emperor of Earth, I would abolish all parties; no political parties whatsoever allowed. If you wish to have a voice then you express it as a member of your society and you appeal to that society as a whole.


Appealing any divisive issue to your society would, by it's nature, divide them into at least two camps, or "parties". Yes or no.

And every governmental proposal is a divisive issue.

It's just the natural way of things.


Absoulutely. Every one should be free to have their own opinion. Parties do not allow, much less facilitate, that any better than ZERO parties would.

Parties in fact FORCE people to accept viewpoints that they might not otherwise accept simply because it has been deemed by someone within the party to be "the party line."

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 Post subject: Re: Italian election explained
PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 1:21 pm 
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NefariousKoel wrote:
LaPalice wrote:
It is an effect of the EU. Now the national governments and institutions don't have any more a real power. The main things are decided at the European level, with the Commission or the ECB for example. So now, the people trust less their own government, seeing them as weak, unable to take a real decision. The main victim of that system is the social democracy, which is desappearing in Europe.


Even worse, now that so many EU aristocrats are running the show.

How many of those are even elected now? Seems the citizens of the EU are losing their democratic representation in government at a steady pace. The ruling class is taking over, and damn the plebs' self-determination.

Europe is not democratic because it is a big thing, and contrary to the US, a very diverse entity, with many nationalities, so you need an empire to govern it. It was the same thing with Rome: when the republic was not any more able to lead a vast empire, Rome became an empire. Only non-elected institutions can govern the EU. The only elected institution, the Europen Parliament, has almost no power.


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 Post subject: Re: Italian election explained
PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 2:41 pm 
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I'm ignorant of it really. I think the EU wanted to be a "United States of Europe". But it just doesn't work for y'all. You can't consider yourselves 1 country of states that are truly "United".

Anyone who lives in any state in America is an American. There's no border between the states. We consider ourselves brothers and sisters to some extent. One country.

What makes matters completely impossible in Europe is that, while US federal gobmint (US version of EU) is considered a sham, most ppl are cynical; the EU gobmint is much worse. Ppl feel they aren't being represented and it pisses im off.

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 Post subject: Re: Italian election explained
PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 5:47 pm 
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chijohnaok wrote:
LaPalice wrote:
European democracies become more and more ungovernable. It is the case of Spain where there is no real majority, it is the case of Germany where the coalition is weak, and it will be the case in Italy tomorrow certainly.

It seems that parliamentary democracies does not work any more. If France still works, it is because it is a presidential democracy, otherwise it would be the same situation as the other EU democracies.



Well, perhaps they could reconsider the "Reichsfuhrer" democracy variant. ;-)

How about the US, or the UK? :roll:

Putin is winning. :twisted:

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 Post subject: Re: Italian election explained
PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 6:13 pm 
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mdiehl wrote:
So the Sneero take-away on Italian politics is "Trump stinks"? :roll:

Obviously you miss the humouristic side of the issue.

Though I am not surprised, actually just on the contrary.

So you are an accidental, unwilling humourist as usual. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Italian election explained
PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 6:25 pm 
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nero wrote:
chijohnaok wrote:


Well, perhaps they could reconsider the "Reichsfuhrer" democracy variant. ;-)

How about the US, or the UK? :roll:

Putin is winning. :twisted:


If Putin is “winning” then why is he resorting to threats and cheesy videos to the US about Russian missiles that he claims cannot be intercepted? That is the sort of desperate thing that the Imperial Family of North Korea is used to doing.

As far as the US goes, our form of government has been pretty constant for the last couple hundred years: 3 branches of government, system of checks and balances. The biggest change was probably when the 17th Amendment was ratified in 1913 and changed US Senators to being elected directly, rather than being elected by the state legislature. Also in 1951 the 22nd Amendment was ratified to limit President’s to 2 terms, to eliminate the possibility of someone serving as long as FDR did. So 105 yrs and no major changes.

Our national government is still centered in Washington, DC, like it was 200 years ago. We don’t answer to a foreign parliament based in a city outside our nation’s borders.

How about Finland?

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