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 Post subject: Re: Floride School Shooting at least 15 dead
PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 2:13 am 
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Mac wrote:
At least Hogg practices what he preaches...

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Quote:
David Hogg protests outside NRA HQ — protected by armed guards?
August 5, 2018
By Kyle Olson

Anti-gun protester David Hogg hates guns — but apparently not enough to not be protected by them.

Hogg and a collective of anti-Second Amendment agitators protested outside the NRA headquarters on Saturday, and as the group points out, he was protected by armed guards.

The NRA’s photos show, among other things, Hogg with several security agents.

For his part, Hogg unwittingly tweeted a photo showing additional armed security protecting him.

In an attempt to ridicule the pro-2A counter-protesters, the student undermined his own message.
(Continued)
http://www.theamericanmirror.com/david- ... ed-guards/

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 Post subject: Re: Florida School Shooting at least 15 dead
PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 9:23 am 
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Quote:
Video shows massacre suspect punching self, speaking softly
By Terry Spencer | Associated Press

_Video_
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/08/09/vi ... oftly.html

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 Post subject: Re: Florida School Shooting at least 15 dead
PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 9:34 am 
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abradley wrote:
Quote:
Video shows massacre suspect punching self, speaking softly
By Terry Spencer | Associated Press

_Video_
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/08/09/vi ... oftly.html

Two questions:

1) Why the shooter was not in therapy, he was an obvious nut cake?
2) How on Earth can a nut cake get an assault rifle?

:roll:

Or perhaps it is better believe Alex Jones and it was just theater. :twisted:

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 Post subject: Re: Florida School Shooting at least 15 dead
PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 9:42 am 
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nero wrote:
Two questions:

1) Why the shooter was not in therapy, he was an obvious nut cake?
2) How on Earth can a nut cake get an assault rifle?

:roll:

Or perhaps it is better believe Alex Jones and it was just theater. :twisted:
IMO, he is a nut case but did he realize what he was doing or was he beyond the pale at the time of the shooting.

As for his faking it, don't know, his face hits weren't true punches ... but I ain't an expert on self inflicted face hits.

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 Post subject: Re: Florida School Shooting at least 15 dead
PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 11:56 am 
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nero wrote:
Two questions:

1) Why the shooter was not in therapy, he was an obvious nut cake?
2) How on Earth can a nut cake get an assault rifle?

:roll:

Or perhaps it is better believe Alex Jones and it was just theater. :twisted:



IN response to your questions Nero:

Before I go into the specifics, I will say that your questions, to a large extent, have already been addressed previously in this thread.

Quote:
1) Why the shooter was not in therapy, he was an obvious nut cake?

-----There were 36 visits by local law enforcement to the same household over a period of several years (about a nut)--that should be a red flag (at least it should be to someone with some common sense).
No one from the County Sheriff's office was able to connect the dots and realize that there might be a problem here; that Cruz might have some psychological issues.
Had that happened, he might have been offered or ordered into treatment for those mental issues.

----There were 3 tips to the FBI, including one of them that specifically named the the nut who wanted to commit a school shooting----these were by definition red flags and were not properly acted upon by the FBI. The FBI did nothing. Had they followed up on these red flags, Cruz might have gotten some mental health treatment

------The school resource officer wanted to get Cruz referred for the Baker Act but that never happened
To get him Baker Act'ed would have resulted in a mental health evaluation by a qualified medical person
(I posted the above 3 items in this thread on: PostPosted: 03 Apr 2018 22:34
Another post on PostPosted: 19 Mar 2018 17:46 "APNewsBreak: Some wanted Florida suspect committed in 2016"

Quote:
2) How on Earth can a nut cake get an assault rifle?

He was able to obtain an assault weapon because there were no entries in the NICS database which would have resulted in him not being approved for a purchase.

Now to the question of WHY were there no such entries:
----36 visits by local law enforcement to the same household over a period of several years, were apparently not enough visits for the country sheriffs office to think there was a problem and escalate him for additional scrutiny (such as consideration for a mental health evaluation)
----There were 3 tips to the FBI that the FBI failed to act on. Had they done so, then its quite possible Cruz would have ended up being referred for a mental health evaluation, which could have led to him being red flagged in NICS
----------The school resource officer wanted to get Cruz referred for the Baker Act but that never happened. Had that occured he likely would have been red flagged in NICS while attempting to purchase a gun.

To the above you can also add into the mix the official program that this school district had in place where repeated disciplinary issues at school (some of which might normally have resulted in an arrest (and a red flag in NICS) were minimized. This program was officially supposed to be a way to 'stop the path whereby young students get arrested and then this derails the rest of their life). In reality, it seemed like this school district was using this program as a way to reduce the number of arrests/disciplinary cases it had. Less disciplinary cases reported in the statistics, makes the school district look better.

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 Post subject: Re: Florida School Shooting at least 15 dead
PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 12:16 pm 
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chijohnaok wrote:
nero wrote:
Two questions:

1) Why the shooter was not in therapy, he was an obvious nut cake?
2) How on Earth can a nut cake get an assault rifle?

:roll:

Or perhaps it is better believe Alex Jones and it was just theater. :twisted:



IN response to your questions Nero:

Before I go into the specifics, I will say that your questions, to a large extent, have already been addressed previously in this thread.

Quote:
1) Why the shooter was not in therapy, he was an obvious nut cake?

-----There were 36 visits by local law enforcement to the same household over a period of several years (about a nut)--that should be a red flag (at least it should be to someone with some common sense).
No one from the County Sheriff's office was able to connect the dots and realize that there might be a problem here; that Cruz might have some psychological issues.
Had that happened, he might have been offered or ordered into treatment for those mental issues.

----There were 3 tips to the FBI, including one of them that specifically named the the nut who wanted to commit a school shooting----these were by definition red flags and were not properly acted upon by the FBI. The FBI did nothing. Had they followed up on these red flags, Cruz might have gotten some mental health treatment

------The school resource officer wanted to get Cruz referred for the Baker Act but that never happened
To get him Baker Act'ed would have resulted in a mental health evaluation by a qualified medical person
(I posted the above 3 items in this thread on: PostPosted: 03 Apr 2018 22:34
Another post on PostPosted: 19 Mar 2018 17:46 "APNewsBreak: Some wanted Florida suspect committed in 2016"

Quote:
2) How on Earth can a nut cake get an assault rifle?

He was able to obtain an assault weapon because there were no entries in the NICS database which would have resulted in him not being approved for a purchase.

Now to the question of WHY were there no such entries:
----36 visits by local law enforcement to the same household over a period of several years, were apparently not enough visits for the country sheriffs office to think there was a problem and escalate him for additional scrutiny (such as consideration for a mental health evaluation)
----There were 3 tips to the FBI that the FBI failed to act on. Had they done so, then its quite possible Cruz would have ended up being referred for a mental health evaluation, which could have led to him being red flagged in NICS
----------The school resource officer wanted to get Cruz referred for the Baker Act but that never happened. Had that occured he likely would have been red flagged in NICS while attempting to purchase a gun.

To the above you can also add into the mix the official program that this school district had in place where repeated disciplinary issues at school (some of which might normally have resulted in an arrest (and a red flag in NICS) were minimized. This program was officially supposed to be a way to 'stop the path whereby young students get arrested and then this derails the rest of their life). In reality, it seemed like this school district was using this program as a way to reduce the number of arrests/disciplinary cases it had. Less disciplinary cases reported in the statistics, makes the school district look better.

So everything is A-OK, no problem. Go on, full speed ahead. Until the next time.

But there a solution, the kinterguards.



:roll:

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 Post subject: Re: Florida School Shooting at least 15 dead
PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 12:38 pm 
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I never said that there were no problems.

The sheriffs office dropped the ball in this incident.
In fac this particular sheriffs office was working hand in hand with the school district for that program.

The FBI fucked up in that they failed to follow up on the tips that were called in.

Someone (I’m not sure if who) fucked up in not following up on the Deputy’s Baker Act request.

The school district also fucked up. They were more concerned with reducing their disciplinary statistics than they were in actually helping problem students (those that could be helped), and getting those that were beyond help out of th school to where they were no longer a threat to other students.

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 Post subject: Re: Florida School Shooting at least 15 dead
PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 8:28 am 
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abradley wrote:
IMO, he is a nut case but did he realize what he was doing or was he beyond the pale at the time of the shooting.

As for his faking it, don't know, his face hits weren't true punches ... but I ain't an expert on self inflicted face hits.


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 Post subject: Re: Florida School Shooting at least 15 dead
PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 1:45 pm 
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Quote:
... How on Earth can a nut cake get an assault rifle? ...


Quote:
... He was able to obtain an assault weapon because there were no entries in the NICS database ...


Actually, he did not obtain an "assault rifle" ... nor did he try to ... per the actual definition of the term ... which is a full auto battle rifle ... like an AK or an H&K 7.62 16 inch ... or a full auto M-14 ... those weapons are actual "assault rifles" ... they and the term sort of grew up together .. if you know anything about the history of such firearms ...

==
In the USA in BATFE terms (the agency that approves transfer of assault rifles), the process is longer and more involved ... BUT ... in truth .. is little more than a background check performed by the ATF ... that said ... per the current process (post implementation of new rule 41F) the relevant Sheriff's office must be informed. So, it is theoretically possible that a person could be approved for transfer of a machinegun (the ATF term for the type of firearm which includes real assault rifles) but then shortly thereafter, have the Sheriff's office go, "Hey wait a minute, maybe that guy should'n't have a machinegun!" And then perhaps the ATF would go try to get the machinegun back. I've never heard of that happening, but the way the new rule is written, it is theoretically possible. Most likely, such paperwork, would just be filed away by the Sheriff's office, but if they checked the notification against their own database, they might have come up with some questions at least. Pure speculation, the perp did not try to acquire a machinegun (assault rifle) so we will never know.

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 Post subject: Re: Florida School Shooting at least 15 dead
PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 2:16 pm 
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Quote:
Actually, he did not obtain an "assault rifle" ... nor did he try to ... per the actual definition of the term ... which is a full auto battle rifle ... like an AK or an H&K 7.62 16 inch ... or a full auto M-14 ... those weapons are actual "assault rifles" ... they and the term sort of grew up together .. if you know anything about the history of such firearms ...




I am aware of that, which is why in my response I used the term “assault weapon”.
I could have pointed that out (for Nero’s benefit), but you have done so now.

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