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 Post subject: Re: Tensions Rise in Spain As Catalonia Referendum Nears
PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 3:46 pm 
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Seems like a great deal of societal trauma and dangerous brinksmanship to negotiate on tax policy.

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 Post subject: Re: Tensions Rise in Spain As Catalonia Referendum Nears
PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 3:50 pm 
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It seems as if those that have led people to the edge of the cliff have decided to pause (before they leapt into the abyss).

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 Post subject: Re: Tensions Rise in Spain As Catalonia Referendum Nears
PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 3:53 pm 
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jack t ripper wrote:
Seems like a great deal of societal trauma and dangerous brinksmanship to negotiate on tax policy.


Need I remind you that the US Congress is currently working on tax reform... :lol:

I’m not saying that things will lead us to where Catalonia is right now, but I do predict a lot of whining and hysterics along the way. ;-)

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 Post subject: Re: Tensions Rise in Spain As Catalonia Referendum Nears
PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 4:41 pm 
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Initial conflict is averted, Carles Puigdemont postponed the independence declaration for Catalonia. Though emphasizing that there is mandate.

This is good, things are much easier to negotiate with 0 killed. OK.

I have said that how can 5.3 million Finns to tell to 7.5 Catalans that independence is not for you? :roll:

Hundred years ago most Finns were for more "internal independence", more autonomy than full independence. But the Bolshevik Revolution changed the situation obviously.

Then the 3 million colonists in America had their god given right to independence, we know. ;)

Another, IMHO unnecessary, divorce was the disintegration of Czechoslovakia 1992. The leaders Klaus and Meciar didn't like each other so much. And there was no referendum, naturally.

But back to Catalonia and Spain. I am pretty certain that most of the Catalans do not want to secede. The vote was not legal, not representative. So there is no real mandate. And Puigdemont knows it, and did not escalate the situation more. Now we will see how Rajoy responds.

But understand there is some real reason with this Catalan cause. Hopefully nothing that can not be negotiated on. Pareto-optimal, negotiated solutions are always better than Stackelberg, or Nash solutions. And everything is better than a civil war.

Paz.

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 Post subject: Re: Tensions Rise in Spain As Catalonia Referendum Nears
PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:51 pm 
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Spengler has some interesting points:
Quote:
The Bells of Barcelona Toll for Europe
By David P. Goldman October 2, 2017
https://pjmedia.com/spengler/2017/10/02 ... ll-europe/

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 Post subject: Re: Tensions Rise in Spain As Catalonia Referendum Nears
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 11:20 am 
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If this was a non-western country we'd have observers in there by now and the right to self determination would be demanded from UN pulpits by grandstanding first world leaders. Might even be a bit of recreational bombing.

If nothing else Catalonia shows the hypocrisy up very nicely.

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 Post subject: Re: Tensions Rise in Spain As Catalonia Referendum Nears
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 11:38 am 
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EUBanana wrote:
If this was a non-western country we'd have observers in there by now and the right to self determination would be demanded from UN pulpits by grandstanding first world leaders. Might even be a bit of recreational bombing.

If nothing else Catalonia shows the hypocrisy up very nicely.


The Constitution explicitly states that all parties are indissoluble and agreed upon by 91% of the voting public. The Catalans conduct an illegal referendum in which you believe that approximately 17% of the Catalan population voting for independence is somehow valid?

Like I said before, if you want to talk about hypocrisy, then you should chat with the Tories and Theresa May.

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 Post subject: Re: Tensions Rise in Spain As Catalonia Referendum Nears
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 11:39 am 
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EUBanana wrote:
If this was a non-western country we'd have observers in there by now and the right to self determination would be demanded from UN pulpits by grandstanding first world leaders. Might even be a bit of recreational bombing.

If nothing else Catalonia shows the hypocrisy up very nicely.



Man, that is so true. Why is every third world ethnic or linguistic group being oppressed but the Catalans are not?

I think the answer is financial. The EU does not want an even weaker Spain which might even go Greece on them. Nor do they want EU firms in Catalonia to be disrupted or to encourage nationalistic movements in other EU countries.

"Recreational bombing" :lol: :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Tensions Rise in Spain As Catalonia Referendum Nears
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 11:43 am 
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Unable to plus rep EU for the hilarious "recreational bombing" line :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Tensions Rise in Spain As Catalonia Referendum Nears
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 11:44 am 
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Look the former Prime Minister of Catalonia (Arthur Mas) told the people that they could become independent without any economic repercussions. That was a patent lie. Over a hundred businesses are relocating out of Catalonia as we speak. The longer this goes on, the more businesses are going to move.

Now that the folks know what happens when their Prime Minister declares independence... I think this is the time to have another election and see if these wackos get re-elected.

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