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 Post subject: Re: Tensions Rise in Spain As Catalonia Referendum Nears
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:31 am 
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Lava wrote:
The last "legal" process were the elections in 2015. Pro-independence parties received 47% of the popular vote..



"Declaration of the Initiation of the Process of Independence of Catalonia

The declaration was passed with 72 votes in favor, 63 against and 0 abstentions in the Parliament of Catalonia."


The majority of independence minded representatives in Catalonia is why this has all happened, right?

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 Post subject: Re: Tensions Rise in Spain As Catalonia Referendum Nears
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:36 am 
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Kameolontti wrote:
What was the exact percentage of Americans that wanted independence? Many served the Crown, even militarily fighting against the rebels and insurgents, trying to maintain order against the illegal actions taken by the terrorists that were spreading lies about the Crown, destroying public property and engaging in atrocious acts.
.


I’m not sure of that number.

I’ve seen some who indicate that roughly 1/3 of Americans supported independence, 1/3 were Loyalist (supported the Crown) and 1/3 were fence sitters (indifferent). But then I have read other sources that said those numbers were not accurate.

There were no groups that did polling back in those day so it is difficult to tell.

I do remember reading that after the end of the war approximately 70,000 Loyalists fled the US. I believe the population of the US at the end of the Revolutionary War was about 3 million. That 70,000 would only be about 2.3% of the total but there were probably many Loyalists that didn’t have the means (money) to uproot their lives and move to another country.

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 Post subject: Re: Tensions Rise in Spain As Catalonia Referendum Nears
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:18 pm 
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For y'all in the United States... here is a quiz:

1. When do Americans use the word "indivisible" in respect to the USA.

2. What state has successfully succeeded from the Union and formed a sovereign country?

3. What happened the last time a state or states declared independence from the Union?

4. Where do you find in the Constitution the article which deals with how a state succeeds from the Union?

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 Post subject: Re: Tensions Rise in Spain As Catalonia Referendum Nears
PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 7:31 pm 
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Okay, sorry, I realize it was a difficult quiz. Here are the answers:

Quote:
1. When do Americans use the word "indivisible" in respect to the USA.


"I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

Quote:
2. What state has successfully succeeded from the Union and formed a sovereign country?


None

Quote:
3. What happened the last time a state or states declared independence from the Union?


Civil War... which is the norm when one section of a country tries to break away from the other.

Quote:
4. Where do you find in the Constitution the article which deals with how a state succeeds from the Union?


There is no article in the Constitution which deals with succession; the same which can be said for ALL European Constitutions.

BTW... news update. 540 private companies have left Catalonia in the last week.

And tomorrow is the deadline in which Puigdemont must directly answer the question (yes or no) as to whether or not he declared independence.

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 Post subject: Re: Tensions Rise in Spain As Catalonia Referendum Nears
PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 7:58 pm 
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The time is running out...

Rahoy is clinging on the Spanish constitution. Maintaining the unity of the realm.

First thing is that Rahoy's mandate is pretty slim.

Second thing is that the Spanish constitution is not carved in stone, but made as such because of the pressure of military and falangists. To kick-start democracy. And it worked 1981.

But it is not working now and the king is not helping at all.

Fuck the king and make a federalist republic.

But before that sack Rahoy and Puigdemont.

So it starts.

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 Post subject: Re: Tensions Rise in Spain As Catalonia Referendum Nears
PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 8:01 pm 
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Lava wrote:
For y'all in the United States... here is a quiz:

1. When do Americans use the word "indivisible" in respect to the USA.

2. What state has successfully succeeded from the Union and formed a sovereign country?

3. What happened the last time a state or states declared independence from the Union?

4. Where do you find in the Constitution the article which deals with how a state succeeds from the Union?



Nitpick from you local Grammar Nazi, here, Ray.

"secede"

Unless you're talking about some states completely replacing the US with their own version.

:mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: Tensions Rise in Spain As Catalonia Referendum Nears
PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 10:29 am 
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It's an interesting thought exercise, though.

If a state, or states, seceded from the US today, would another "civil war" be started in order to keep them in?

Also wondering how differently such a decision might be influenced depending on which state(s) it was. Would everyone else invade California, if it were to leave? What about Texas? New Hampshire? Would the US just wave goodbye?

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 Post subject: Re: Tensions Rise in Spain As Catalonia Referendum Nears
PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 11:07 am 
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I think today the split in TGLFKAO is between the cities and the country ... not between the various states ... of course some states have higher populations of city and some of country ... but if there was another civil war any time soon it might be a mixed up affair ...

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 Post subject: Re: Tensions Rise in Spain As Catalonia Referendum Nears
PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 11:53 am 
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jwilkerson wrote:
I think today the split in TGLFKAO is between the cities and the country ... not between the various states ... of course some states have higher populations of city and some of country ... but if there was another civil war any time soon it might be a mixed up affair ...



I agree that much of the split is urban vs rural (with suburbia thrown into the mix as a wildcard).
That of course would make any secessionist 'split' problematic.

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 Post subject: Re: Tensions Rise in Spain As Catalonia Referendum Nears
PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 11:57 am 
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chijohnaok wrote:
I agree that much of the split is urban vs rural (with suburbia thrown into the mix as a wildcard).
That of course would make any secessionist 'split' problematic.


California is a great example. I understand there is movement towards succession there. However, before California as a state started mumbling about succession, the folks in Northern California were saying they want their own state.

So it is not only urban and rural it is also regional.

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