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 Post subject: Re: ANTIFA - Unreasonable?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 7:10 pm 
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I actually did start to read it many years ago.
(and no, I didn't go out and buy a copy. Rather someone in the apartment building that I lived in discarded it and I found it and started reading it).
I gave up reading it not long after I started reading it as I found it boring.

I have read a number of books on things that I may not agree with: Mein Kampf and the Communist Manifesto for example.

Some people read things NOT because they agree with them, but because they want to better understand those that support those books/ideas. It makes you better at trying the debate or counter the arguments of those that support those books/ideas.

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 Post subject: Re: ANTIFA - Unreasonable?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 4:32 pm 
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https://pjmedia.com/video/antifa-rioter ... -property/

Quote:
Antifa Rioters Threaten Livestreamer Who Filmed Them Destroying Property in Berkeley

BY DEBRA HEINE AUGUST 6, 2018


An independent journalist who videotaped a mob of antifa rioters destroying property in Berkeley, Ca., on Sunday described on Fox News how they threatened him into backing off.

“They basically confronted me, and said, ‘Get out of here, the police aren’t here, so they can’t help you,’" Ford Fischer told host Sandra Smith Monday evening on Fox's “The Story.”

Fischer, the co-founder and editor-in-chief of livestreaming service News2Share, was in Berkeley to cover the “No to Marxism” rally and counter demonstrations led by communist and antifa groups.

He told Smith that he followed a group of "Black Bloc" antifa rioters after they broke off from the main protest at Martin Luther King Jr. Civic Center Park.

The journalist videotaped the rioters smashing the windows of a U.S. Marine Corps recruiting office and posted the footage on Twitter.

“From across the street, I was able to film and zoom in really tight,” said Fischer, who added that after damaging the recruiting office, “somebody threw a lit torch into a dumpster, basically trying to create a dumpster fire.”

[video at above linked article]

Fischer said he was then accosted by members of the Black Bloc, and told to leave -- or else.

Ford Fischer
@FordFischer
After I filmed the antifa break the Marine Corps office window and throw a torch into a dumpster, one of them called a few over to confront me. They basically told me to leave, implying attack if I didn't. I left.

"Get the fuck back. Cops aren't here. They won't help you." pic.twitter.com/7m8WkNmOy9

8:04 PM - Aug 5, 2018 · Oakland, CA


“Frankly, I have no doubt that I would have been hurt had I not left,” he told Smith. So he headed back to the main demonstration.

Berkeley police said 20 people were arrested in all and posted their names and pictures on Twitter.



Continued at above link

Antifa threatens to beat up a journalist who filmed them committing criminal acts.

So, Antifa unreasonable?

I say "YES".

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 Post subject: Re: ANTIFA - Unreasonable?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 10:54 pm 
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Oh ffs.

Eric Clanton, the masked Antifa guy who clobbered a guy over the head with a bike lock




entered the halls of justice and received......3 years probation. :roll:

https://hotair.com/archives/2018/08/08/ ... s-dropped/


WTF?

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 Post subject: Re: ANTIFA - Unreasonable?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 11:02 pm 
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First offense probably, assault, possibly aggravated assault and in a context in which fighting was occurring. As much as I'd like to have seen the little shit get a more severe punishment, I think that is probably within the range of "typical."

https://www.avvo.com/legal-answers/what ... 45493.html

Keep in mind, simply threatening to cause someone harm if it is not somehow in a context of self-defense can be classed as "aggravated assualt." Touching someone who didn't want to be touched is "assault."

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 Post subject: Re: ANTIFA - Unreasonable?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 11:16 pm 
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Anthropoid wrote:
First offense probably, assault, possibly aggravated assault and in a context in which fighting was occurring. As much as I'd like to have seen the little shit get a more severe punishment, I think that is probably within the range of "typical."

https://www.avvo.com/legal-answers/what ... 45493.html

Keep in mind, simply threatening to cause someone harm if it is not somehow in a context of self-defense can be classed as "aggravated assualt." Touching someone who didn't want to be touched is "assault."



Um, no.

It is not his first offense.
It wasn't a single offense.
He bike locked between 3-7 other people that same day.

He had previous arrests (but no convictions) for protest related actions:

Quote:
It wasn’t the first time Clanton had been arrested in connection with East Bay demonstrations, police said last year. On Jan. 9, 2014, the California Highway Patrol in Oakland arrested him at Highway 24 and Interstate 980 during a Black Lives Matter protest on suspicion of committing a “public nuisance,” and “willfully and maliciously” blocking a street, sidewalk or other public place. Both are misdemeanors. Police reported no charges in that case, however, or any prior convictions.


https://www.berkeleyside.com/2018/08/08 ... sault-case

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 Post subject: Re: ANTIFA - Unreasonable?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 11:31 pm 
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chijohnaok wrote:
Anthropoid wrote:
First offense probably, assault, possibly aggravated assault and in a context in which fighting was occurring. As much as I'd like to have seen the little shit get a more severe punishment, I think that is probably within the range of "typical."

https://www.avvo.com/legal-answers/what ... 45493.html

Keep in mind, simply threatening to cause someone harm if it is not somehow in a context of self-defense can be classed as "aggravated assualt." Touching someone who didn't want to be touched is "assault."



Um, no.

It is not his first offense.
It wasn't a single offense.
He bike locked between 3-7 other people that same day.

He had previous arrests (but no convictions) for protest related actions:

Quote:
It wasn’t the first time Clanton had been arrested in connection with East Bay demonstrations, police said last year. On Jan. 9, 2014, the California Highway Patrol in Oakland arrested him at Highway 24 and Interstate 980 during a Black Lives Matter protest on suspicion of committing a “public nuisance,” and “willfully and maliciously” blocking a street, sidewalk or other public place. Both are misdemeanors. Police reported no charges in that case, however, or any prior convictions.


https://www.berkeleyside.com/2018/08/08 ... sault-case


Well what about the other assaults? Was he not charged?

"First Offense" refers to convictions not having been detained or arrested. Moreover, a misdemeanor probably wouldn't count as a "prior" in most judges views I think.

I mean, I'm no attorney, but I play one on the internet! :P

If in fact he was being charged for multiple counts of assault or aggravated assault, then I agree the punishment seems to be on the "too lenient" side.

It sounds like it was a plea deal, so, in exchange for a plea of guilty (which saves time and risk of failing to convict) he was offered a fairly light sentence. If in fact there were multiple counts of assault that might explain why the "light" sentence.

We can only hope that his probation terms are stringent and that his probation officers are strict and technically astute.

If I recall, a significant fraction of probationaries wind up breaching the terms of their probation and thus, wind up back in front of a judge and generally having to face the harsher penalties they would have had to face if not offered probation. The risk of it go up with long probation periods and three years strikes me as long. I imagine he will have to make monthly visits to a probation office and demonstrate "good behavior" in various ways, and NOT participating in anything remotely resembling an Antifa gathering (or for that matter a protest in general) is ostensibly part of the terms of his probation. All of which means: he didn't WIN.

Convicting people is not generally an easy thing to do, so I'd say it is good that he now has a conviction on his record, a felony no less, and that he is (ostensibly) going to be held on the straight and narrow for the next three years.

The apparent theory that its all a conspiracy on the part of a leftist "Antifa friendly" judge in the SF area and that he has "got off" without a hitch may have some basis in fact; or it may not.

ADDIT: Okay I read through it. He is NOT being convicted of a felony so that is a disapointment.

Here is the thing though Chi: none of us can look at any of the photographic or physical evidence and SEE without question, that it was in fact him who committed the crimes. Most likely had the prosecutor not offered a plea deal and attempted to convict on multiple charges of felony assault, his defense attorney would simply have taken the stance that: all of this evidence is circumstantial. NO ONE can say that they saw him on the scene, and none of the victims can positively identify him . . . With the right jury, that might well lead to an acquittal.

Obviously it WAS him, we all "know" that. But if we were sitting on the jury and his defense attorney was sharp enough to point out all the holes in the evidence (which there obviously ARE because the little shit wore mask and dark sunglasses) I'd hope we'd all forego our hunch and acknowledge: there is no incontrovertible physical proof that the man in the photos is him. It is a masked man who looks a lot like him and which a series of other circumstantial pieces of evidence suggest could be him.

That is most likely why a plea deal was struck: there are in fact, no witnesses of Clanton committing the crimes and no documentary proof of him committing the crimes (e.g., hair fibers or other physical evidence from one of the victims still on his weapon would've done the trick I'd say).

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 Post subject: Re: ANTIFA - Unreasonable?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 12:29 am 
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Quote:
Here is the thing though Chi: none of us can look at any of the photographic or physical evidence and SEE without question, that it was in fact him who committed the crimes. Most likely had the prosecutor not offered a plea deal and attempted to convict on multiple charges of felony assault, his defense attorney would simply have taken the stance that: all of this evidence is circumstantial. NO ONE can say that they saw him on the scene, and none of the victims can positively identify him . . . With the right jury, that might well lead to an acquittal.


It was him (with no doubt) who committed the act.

Were it up to the police alone, they would likely have never identified Clanton.

Then who ID'd him?
4chan

Quote:
Berkeley Violence and 4chan Investigation
On April 17, 2017 several threads started to appear on 4chan after the Berkeley protests that attempted to identify a man who was assaulting Trump supporters with a bike lock. Although first documented during the Milo Yiannopolos riots, it was during the April 2017 Rally Violence at Berkeley that a man with a bike lock was recorded assaulting people multiple times with his weapon.[28] [49] One person who was attacked, Sean Stiles, can be seen getting hit over the head by Eric; he was later left bloody and required medical attention.[57][35] Using picture and video evidence gathered across the internet, anons ultimately discovered that it was Eric Clanton two days later.[18] [46] [45] [44] [43] [34] [49] 

Eric Clanton on OkCupid
They used multiple objects to identify Eric including the pattern of his veins on his forearm, a zebra pen in his back pocket, the Levi jeans he was wearing, and his boots.[31] [30] [32] Although anons used Starbucks coffee cups to estimate his height to be 5'2'', they were wrong and it's actually 5'11''.[69] 


Quote:
Social Media Helped Police Identify Clanton

Mercury News reported that social media aided police in identifying Clanton:[6]

"...police acknowledged that a video of the incident, shot by onlookers and posted on social media, helped them identify Clanton as the suspect behind “several violent assaults” during the April 15 demonstration at Civic Center Park.
"Police confirmed Clanton can be seen in videos hitting people in the head with a U-shaped bicycle lock; three of them sustained 'significant injuries,' police said."

https://keywiki.org/Eric_Clanton#Social ... fy_Clanton



The people on 4chan were able to identify him from that video, within 2 days of the attack.

You can pause the video so as to read the internet posts which provide the various details around how they were able to identify and match to him.

Pretty amazing for a bunch of interweb shitposters sitting in their parent's basement.
These are the same sort of crew that have in the past been so successful at locating Shia LeBeough's He Will Not Divide Us flags/banners.

IIRC, Mac posted additional details around the 4chan ID process some time after he was identified.

Even after 4chan was able to identify him (and turn their work over to the police), it still took the police another month to confirm and then arrest him.

----------

As to the other bike lockings, I have no idea regarding the status of those.

Regarding the incident above, he was charged with was charged with four counts of felony assault with a deadly weapon, causing great bodily injury. He was also charged with wearing a mask while committing an offense (I am paraphrasing that by memory). California had previously passed a law in an attempt to curb the masked attacks and vandalism that these Antifa-types have done.

Regarding the evidence:

Quote:
Police wrote that they had found evidence last year during a search of Clanton’s home in San Leandro linking him to “Anti-Fascists and Anarchy political groups,” according to court papers. He was not home when police arrived, so officers moved to a second address in West Oakland where they said they found flags, patches and pamphlets “associating Clanton” with antifa and anarchist groups. Investigators arrested Clanton there.

Detectives said they “recovered U-locks, sunglasses, a glove, jeans, and facial coverings” consistent with items worn during the April 15 assaults, according to court documents. And a camera found at the San Leandro home contained “selfies” taken by Clanton, police said, “with him wearing black clothing and facial coverings” consistent with April 15.

Police said in court documents that Clanton’s phone records placed him near Civic Center Park during the time of the protest assaults, too.

https://www.berkeleyside.com/2018/08/08 ... sault-case

I suppose that you could call some of that "circumstantial" but I taken as a whole, I would think that there was a preponderance of evidence to convict.

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 Post subject: Re: ANTIFA - Unreasonable?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 12:39 am 
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Some additional comments regarding the 4chan ID process.

I believe that, if not the bike lock incident specifically, then their previous identification successes in general, might/could have served as the basis for a show that was on CBS last year:

Wisdom of the Crowd
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wisdom_of_the_Crowd



4chan was able to do this, without the benefit of the supercenter/supercomputer that was set up in the television show.

I actually enjoyed watching that show.
Unfortunately, the lead star, Jeremy Piven, got himself into some hot water with the whole #metoo wave regarding allegations of sexual misconduct by several women:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremy_Pi ... llegations

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 Post subject: Re: ANTIFA - Unreasonable?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 9:30 am 
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Look, if someone is wearing a mask they CANNOT BE positively identified. PERIOD.

That applies to scumbag crypto-commie anarchists just as much as it applies to Jesus Christ, you, me or Ronald Reagan in his prime.

YOU WANT it that way, trust me.

This is why people wearing masks at demonstrations or any other sort of public gathering (which is not in temperatures below 0 C should be:immediate detainment by police.

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 Post subject: Re: ANTIFA - Unreasonable?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 11:17 am 
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I agree that dropping the charges to a misdemeanor is a stupid idea.

IMO the only possible outcome is escalation as anyone who is confronted by Antifa may decide that better armor and more or better weapons are the only recourse in Berkeley because, clearly, the law will not be brought to bear on Antifa goons' actions.

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