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 Post subject: Re: Exit NATO
PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2019 12:03 pm 
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nelmsm wrote:
If Macron was so concerned about US troops leaving northern Syria why didn't he offer to send in French troops to replace them?

Macron does not reproach the Americans for leaving Northern Syria, but the fact that Trump took the decision alone without discussing about it with his allies (the French have spec ops on the ground, of course less numerous than the Americans).

France might send troops in Syria to defend the Kurds, it is true. But would that please the Americans? as if they leave Syria, it is to keep their Turk ally in their side. So I don't think that the Americans would like to see the French fighting with the Turks. Then, if the French wanted to defend the Kurds, it is probable that the Americans would tell them "no, you are not going to do that, we want to keep Turkey as ally and in NATO".


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 Post subject: Re: Exit NATO
PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2019 1:11 pm 
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Trump doesn't really give a shit about Turkey (other than perhaps selling them American products). Turkey is on their way out of NATO after the Russian SAM purchase. It was stupid. You can't be entering NATO IFF (Identification Friend or Foe) codes into a Russian radar tracking computer. The security threat if off the scale. In the middle of a fight the Russian planes could flip a switch on their IFF transponders and you would suddenly have a couple hundred Norwegian MiG-31's all over NATO radar screens.

Even the Turks had to know this. It means they don't give a shit.

Anyone who think Trump was bluffing about the "America first" thing is not paying attention. It's the central focus of his Presidency. He announced we were getting out of Syria three years ago.

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 Post subject: Re: Exit NATO
PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2019 1:52 pm 
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We have repeatedly been told that Trump is all for ending the NATO alliance....

https://twitter.com/TrumpWarRoom/status ... 6854818817



Trump War Room (Text TRUMP to 88022)
@TrumpWarRoom
WATCH: Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau applauds @realDonaldTrump ’s leadership on NATO investments:

“The American strength in ensuring that people are stepping up in terms of their military investment is certainly something we’ve recognized in Canada.”

[video at above linked tweet]

11:37 AM · Dec 3, 2019


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 Post subject: Re: Exit NATO
PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2019 2:11 pm 
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chijohnaok wrote:
We have repeatedly been told that Trump is all for ending the NATO alliance....


Well, at least we have repeatedly been told Lava is all for Trump ending the NATO alliance. :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Exit NATO
PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2019 2:48 pm 
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jack t ripper wrote:
Trump doesn't really give a shit about Turkey (other than perhaps selling them American products). Turkey is on their way out of NATO after the Russian SAM purchase. It was stupid. You can't be entering NATO IFF (Identification Friend or Foe) codes into a Russian radar tracking computer. The security threat if off the scale. In the middle of a fight the Russian planes could flip a switch on their IFF transponders and you would suddenly have a couple hundred Norwegian MiG-31's all over NATO radar screens.

Even the Turks had to know this. It means they don't give a shit.

Anyone who think Trump was bluffing about the "America first" thing is not paying attention. It's the central focus of his Presidency. He announced we were getting out of Syria three years ago.

It is true that the Americans have a power of control on Europe and other members of NATO: they can unilaterally stop the livraison of F35 to Turkey, despite the fact that the Turks already invested 1 billions of dollars in the plane. I don't know if they have a recourse because of a breach of contract.

If Trump likes to sell products to other countries, he should know that NATO helps a lot, as it allows to the Americans to sell weapons to the Europeans, like the F35.


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 Post subject: Re: Exit NATO
PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2019 2:52 pm 
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What is the alternative for weapon purchases for Europe? Does anyone produce for export anything that matches the F-35? Are the Germans suddenly going to be flying Migs? Well maybe that is a bad example as apparently they can't keep much of anything airworthy these days.

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 Post subject: Re: Exit NATO
PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2019 2:57 pm 
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LaPalice wrote:
If Trump likes to sell products to other countries, he should know that NATO helps a lot, as it allows to the Americans to sell weapons to the Europeans, like the F35.


Sell to the Russians.

US CVs are expensive. Sell some to Putin. Problem?

:P


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 Post subject: Re: Exit NATO
PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2019 3:00 pm 
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nelmsm wrote:
What is the alternative for weapon purchases for Europe? Does anyone produce for export anything that matches the F-35? Are the Germans suddenly going to be flying Migs? Well maybe that is a bad example as apparently they can't keep much of anything airworthy these days.

In 2003, the French were not happy that the Poles bought F16's instead of French mirages 2000. If NATO did not exist, and if the Poles did not think that the US was so important for their defense, not sure that they would have bought American instead of European (the grippen was in the competition too). The Poles prefered to show more solidarity to the Americans than to their European partners.


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 Post subject: Re: Exit NATO
PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2019 3:38 pm 
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Sweden bought Patriot SAMs instead of buying a newer and better French system. A little later SAAB got in on the cake on the new jet trainer for the USAF. Big bucks, hoka hey.


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 Post subject: Re: Exit NATO
PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2019 5:13 pm 
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Quote:
... I don't think that the Americans would like to see the French fighting with the Turks ...


Why not ? I'm fine with the Frogs giving err dogge a whoopin' ... she deserves one ...

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