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 Post subject: Exit NATO
PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2017 5:32 pm 
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Forging Own Path

Alongside Modi, Merkel said that while trans-Atlantic relations are of “paramount significance,” the European Union had to forge its own path in the world “considering the current situation.”

“What I said was simply to indicate that, here are even more reasons beyond those we already have that Europe needs to take its destiny into its own hands,” she said.

Modi, the prime minister of the world’s largest democracy, welcomed a stronger global role for the EU and expressly lauded the bloc’s most powerful leader.

“We always want that the European Union should be stronger, should be more active,” Modi said. “Through Chancellor Merkel, we will be able to work with the European Union. It’s very easy for us.”


https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2017-05-30/trump-blasts-germany-again-as-merkel-modi-stress-mutual-values

Has the time finally come for replacing/ending NATO...?


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 Post subject: Re: Exit NATO
PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2017 5:37 pm 
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Through Chancellor Merkel

Enjoy your Chancellor, bitches! The Weltreich awaits!

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 Post subject: Re: Exit NATO
PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2017 5:52 pm 
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wulfir wrote:

Has the time finally come for replacing/ending NATO...?



Here's hoping....

my family has sent 4 generations to try to convince EUtopians not to give into their war habit....

America should be focused on the Anglosphere.

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 Post subject: Re: Exit NATO
PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2017 5:55 pm 
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Sounds like bluster to me. How is an EU Army going to be more capable than NATO with the US on board? Not only that she essentially just cut the UK out of the equation too?

US Army Brigade, Armored Cav Regt, 173rd Airborne plus two missile regiments, helicopter brigade, 3 squadrons F-15, 1 x F-16, airlift, etc, etc...not tom emtnion all the crap that would come over in a fight.



Who is going to pay for all of that capability? Merkel and Macron need to get over their Trumpophobia.

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 Post subject: Re: Exit NATO
PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2017 6:01 pm 
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jack t ripper wrote:
Sounds like bluster to me. How is an EU Army going to be more capable than NATO with the US on board? Not only that she essentially just cut the UK out of the equation too?

US Army Brigade, Armored Cav Regt, 173rd Airborne plus two missile regiments, helicopter brigade, 3 squadrons F-15, 1 x F-16, airlift, etc, etc...not tom emtnion all the crap that would come over in a fight.



Who is going to pay for all of that capability? Merkel and Macron need to get over their Trumpophobia.


Ideally unlike NATO it will be EUtopians not Americans paying for their mess....

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 Post subject: Re: Exit NATO
PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2017 6:24 pm 
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Quote:
Who is going to pay for all of that capability? Merkel and Macron need to get over their Trumpophobia.


As long as it's not Americans doing the paying who cares? EU can have an army or not. Don't care. I suspect they'll be sorta vulnerable without one, but the US should stop providing that service.

Economies and politics are linked. Every dime the US spends defending foreign powers bites the US economy in the ass for a dollar.

Imagine the EU having to pony up the money for their own defense. That'd mean taxes for EU citizenry and corporations that are at this time being paid for by American citizens and corporations.

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 Post subject: Re: Exit NATO
PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2017 6:27 pm 
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jack t ripper wrote:
How is an EU Army going to be more capable than NATO with the US on board?


Without doubt a sort of EU Army would be less capable without the US. Is Germany going to get ABC weapons? Probably not anytime soon - but with waning American interest can't the US withdraw its Europan bases to Britain and form a sort of mini-NATO with the UK and Canada? Or withdraw back to the US itself?

The Europan rest can form a less capable "EU Army" with all those underfunded various defence forces..., maybe cut the Turks loose..., seems to me that would make a lot of people happy.


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 Post subject: Re: Exit NATO
PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2017 6:31 pm 
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Agreed, although, I suspect Trump is trying to negotiate a higher European contribution without the full exit of the US.

I read somewhere that the luftwaffe is lucky to have half a dozen C-130's flightworthy at one time.

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 Post subject: Re: Exit NATO
PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2017 6:42 pm 
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All may not be what it appears at first glance:
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Merkel throws Trump in the briar patch
BY DAVID P. GOLDMAN MAY 30, 2017 CHAT 12 COMMENTS
Donald Trump and Angela Merkel now agree about the main issues in US-German relations. “The times in which we could rely fully on others — they are a way past us,” Merkel told a beer-tent rally of her political party. “We Europeans really have to take our fate into our own hands.” That is just what President Trump has been telling the Europeans since the beginning of last year’s US election campaign, demanding in particular that Europe pay more for its own defense. Both Trump and Merkel, moreover, say they want the Euro to strengthen against the U.S. dollar. That buries the two bones of contention between Berlin and Washington. Everything else is political posturing and fake news.

The German Chancellor in effect threatens to throw President Trump into the proverbial briar patch, giving him what he wants while appearing to denounce him (see the Disney version here).

Merkel is running for re-election to a fourth term in next September’s national elections, and it does her more good to denounce Trump than to speak of policy convergence. The German public hates Donald Trump with a visceral passion. The country’s largest-circulation news magazine, Der Spiegel, titled an editorial last week, “It’s time to get rid of Donald Trump,” explaining: “Donald Trump has transformed the United States into a laughing-stock and he is a danger to the world. He must be removed from the White House before things get even worse.”

SPONSORED


Trump’s unashamed nationalism elicits revulsion in a land whose 20th-century experience with nationalism was less than satisfactory. The Germans never will understand American populism; for them, populism is the dank fen of German politics that incubated National Socialism. Germany’s self-styled populists of the Alternative for Germany party are infested with Nazi apologists. In the distorting mirror of German history, Trump looks like a monster.

Even worse, Trump stepped on Germany’s sore toe with big boots when he denounced Germany’s 2015 decision to admit more than 1.2 million Muslim refugees supposedly from Syria, but including economic migrants from as far away as Afghanistan. For Germans, this was a grand national sacrifice to world-citizenship; to Trump and the American political right, it was a hallmark of civilizational decline. That may be true, but the Germans insist on their right to decline in their own chosen fashion.
(Continued)
https://pjmedia.com/spengler/2017/05/30 ... iar-patch/

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 Post subject: Re: Exit NATO
PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2017 6:49 pm 
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jack t ripper wrote:
Agreed, although, I suspect Trump is trying to negotiate a higher European contribution without the full exit of the US.


Perhaps, but is that wise?
Do voters in the US expect to see anyting other than a half-meassure at best from the Euro nations...

From the Euro perspective it should be clear that the eternal peace/final win of democracy did not happen - the regiments are needed again, best if they are European.


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