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 Post subject: Re: Military Thread
PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2018 9:18 pm 
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T-28 that was captured by the Finns...


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 Post subject: Re: Military Thread
PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2018 3:31 am 
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That does look like a Soviet T-28.
Those were LAST produced in 1942, making that one, at best, 77 yrs old.

And the Finns are still using it as an engineering (towing) tank????

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 Post subject: Re: Military Thread
PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2018 8:40 am 
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I just said Char-B as a joke...but the thing looked antique to me. How much HP would a T-28 have? I don't think the transmission could handle it either. Maybe it's a joke.

The Leopard is an awesome machine just from an aesthetic standpoint.

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 Post subject: Re: Military Thread
PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2018 12:29 pm 
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The Finnish tank arm in WWII relied heavily on captured Russian tanks. The pre-winter war tanks they had did not do well in action but during the course of the war(s) they were able to capture a bunch of Soviet gear, and put it to use against the previous owners. IIRC they had a ISU-152 that was used as a sort of tractor/recovery thing for a while after the war.

The Finns and Germans did use StuGs in action in Finland 1944. The Pz IV tanks they Finns bought did not arrive in time for use against the Soviets. The Germans in the north used various captured French AFVs, including a couple of S-35s in the fall of 1944.

As for the Russians - Maretskov did on purpose ask for obsolete tank models - like the land lease M3 Grant/Lee - for his Far North offensive. The reasoning was that if he asked for older models he would get more, but the roadless north proved basically impossible tank country and it was seldom possible to deploy more than two tanks abreast...

Towing modern Leopard tanks with and old T-28? I don't belive it. Maybe it's like Ripper says, some kind of tankers joke...


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 Post subject: Re: Military Thread
PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 10:32 am 
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A year or so ago when I was getting into HoI4 a bit, I was doing some homework on the Nazi arms buildup . . . Beutepanzer was the German term for captured armored fighting vehicles. The numbers on that wiki page don't match up with what I found in the past, and memory is never a good thing to rely on strictly but . . . seem to recall seeing that by the end of Fall Gelb, the total number of all vehicles (not just AFVs but light and heavy transport too) was increased by a significant fraction. They must have continued to make systematic use of captured stuff well into the Barbarossa campaign too . . .

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 Post subject: Re: Military Thread
PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 10:40 am 
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Yes, I have a detailed OOB on the German's at the start of the Barbarossa campaign and MANY divisions have a significant number of "other" vehicles. French, Polish, Czech, Austrian, etc. etc. For maintenance purposes (I assume) they seem to try to collect vehicles of similar origin into specific divisions, so these wouldn't be scattered out all over the place. I'd say ALL the later waves of divisions that were raised prior to barbarossa had such equipment. If nothing else, it shows how "stretched" the krauts were logistically before they ever even launched the attack on russia. It really was a "shoe string" operation from a logistical perspective. But hecque, if you look at the ammunition stocks, the attack on Poland was also !!! :)

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 Post subject: Re: Military Thread
PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 10:51 am 
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Anthropoid wrote:
A year or so ago when I was getting into HoI4 a bit, I was doing some homework on the Nazi arms buildup . . . Beutepanzer was the German term for captured armored fighting vehicles. The numbers on that wiki page don't match up with what I found in the past, and memory is never a good thing to rely on strictly but . . . seem to recall seeing that by the end of Fall Gelb, the total number of all vehicles (not just AFVs but light and heavy transport too) was increased by a significant fraction. They must have continued to make systematic use of captured stuff well into the Barbarossa campaign too . . .


The Wehrmacht was forced to rely on captured motor vehicles...Germany was simply not able to produce enough motor vehicles.

Even so, the Wehrmacht relied heavily of horses during WW2:

Quote:
Germany
The German Army entered World War II with 514,000 horses,[13] and over the course of the war employed, in total, 2.75 million horses and mules;[16] the average number of horses in the Army reached 1.1 million.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horses_in ... II#Germany

While the majority of horses were used for logistics and for pulling artillery, Germany still had a cavalry brigade at the start of the war and by 1945 they had 6 cavalry divisions in the field.

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 Post subject: Re: Military Thread
PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:56 pm 
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The Germans made use of captured equipment big time, everything from small arms to artillery and tanks. They also made use of volunteers from enemy nations, including loads of Russians and sometimes jokingly called them 'Beutedeutsche'.

The 1. Kavallerie-Brigade, later division was upgraded to a Panzer-Division 1942 and lost in Stalindrad. IIRC was somewhat unusual because it had three not two tank battalions and retained the cavalry type ranks (Rittmeister not Hauptmann etc) and some unit designations (Schawron instead of Kompanie). Jason Marks Death of the Leaping Horseman is a detailed account (in English) of this division during the Stalingrad fighting but for some reason ends around Nov 19 with the Soviet encirclement. There are a couple of German language sources on the division as well that are somewhat well known.

While they always made use of horse transport they sort of rediscovered the use of (fighting) cavarly units late war but had problems with the quality of horses. Two famous officers of the cavalry arm were the von Boeselager brothers who were deeply involved in the plot to kill Hitler and size power...


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 Post subject: Re: Military Thread
PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 2:21 pm 
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I had never heard of the von Boeselager brothers before.

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 Post subject: Re: Military Thread
PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 2:24 pm 
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wulfir wrote:
The Germans made use of captured equipment big time, everything from small arms to artillery and tanks. They also made use of volunteers from enemy nations, including loads of Russians and sometimes jokingly called them 'Beutedeutsche'.

.


The use of captured equipment, particularly that from Czechoslovakia, is the only way that you can fill out the OOB needs for the German army & Fall Weiss in Hearts of Iron IV. :)

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