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 Post subject: Re: Military Thread
PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 3:57 pm 
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This might have already been posted elsewhere....

War Plan Red


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 Post subject: Re: Military Thread
PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 4:19 pm 
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War Plan Red would be a pretty awesome alternate history war game. War Plan Orange certainly was fun.

War Plan Crimson would be pretty lame though . . . pretty much: you invade, shots fired, okay you won.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_St ... _war_plans

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 Post subject: Re: Military Thread
PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:49 pm 
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USMC Foreign Legion

https://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htsf/ ... 80210.aspx

Quote:
Special Operations: USMC Irregular Warfare Regiment


February 10, 2018: The U.S. Marine Corps wants to form an Irregular Warfare Regiment (IWR) that would be a cross between the French Foreign Legion and the U.S. Army Special Forces. The IWR would have 4,200 troops and about 3,000 would be foreign born and selected because they were physically and mentally able to enlist and had language and cultural awareness skills the marines needed in various parts of the world. All officers and NCOs above the rank of E-5 (sergeant) would be U.S. citizens. If the program is established eventually many IWR officers and senior NCOs would be naturalized citizens. In effect, a foreign legion composed mostly of foreign volunteers seeking a quicker path to citizenship and able to meet Marine Corps standards.

Many IWR would be recruited overseas and after security screening would, if necessary, be sent to English language school where they would have to complete the course (and attain sufficient proficiency to handle military service) and then sent to boot camp. Once completing that they would be marines, serving a five year enlistment, and would then be sent to existing courses for intelligence, advising foreign forces, information warfare, counterinsurgency and security. All this would take nearly two years. Successful completion of all that would mean they would show up at the IWR with three years left. Upon successful completion of their five year enlistment non-citizen marines would become naturalized citizens. The IWR itself would be a light infantry unit with most of the troops expected to serve in small detachments with marine battalions or companies assigned to a foreign area. The IWR marines would be trusted translators and advisors who would be better able to work with foreigners whose language and culture they grew up in. In addition they are marines and that makes it easier for all marines in the vicinity.

The U.S. military has had experience with similar programs but all have suffered from problems with doing background checks for personnel who will be handling classified materials. The most recent such program, the 2008 MAVNI (Military Accessions Vital to the National Interest) was looking for qualified non-citizens able to provide needed language or medical skills. Some 10,000 non-citizens were enlisted from 2009 until the program was put on hold in 2017. There were problems with the security screening. There were not enough qualified people to do it and it was believed foreign intel organizations were seeking to use MAVNI as a way to insert agents. That was because as originally set up MAVNI was the quickest way for a non-citizen to get a security clearance and citizenship. The IWR program somewhat solves that problem because getting through marine boot camp and serving with other marines over an extended period has proved to be something foreign intelligence agencies deem too difficult to deal with.

Actually, an even earlier program, that was not particularly special at all, handled about 100,000 non-citizens with better results than with native born Americans. In the decade after September 11, 2001 it was found that non-citizens of prime military age (18-29) made up about 2.2 percent of the U.S. population, but 4 percent of military personnel. There are about 1.2 million non-citizens who are physically, mentally, and psychologically fit to serve in the military. These men and women are particularly attractive to the military because they tend to work harder, have fewer disciplinary problems, and often possess language skills and cultural knowledge that the military needs. But a major reason non-citizens are overrepresented in the military is that it's an ancient tradition for a newcomer to gain membership in the tribe/kingdom/country via performing some dangerous service to gain recognition and acceptance.

In that decade the U.S. military enlisted some 70,000 non-citizens, about five percent of all recruits. The foreign recruits were tossed out during their first three months of service at half the rate of their native born counterparts. After three years of service 72 percent of citizens were still in uniform, compared to 84 percent of non-citizen troops. The foreign troops were more patriotic and worked harder than their citizen counterparts. Non-citizen troops had another incentive, as they could apply for citizenship sooner because of their military service. Any foreign recruit forced out for medical reasons (because of combat or non-combat injuries) could still obtain citizenship more quickly. Most foreign troops obtain citizenship as soon as they can while in the military because many jobs require a security clearance and only citizens can get one of those.

In the decade after 2001 some senior American officers urged the recruitment of more foreigners. Not just non-citizens with green cards but foreigners who were not residents of the United States. This brought forth protests from those opposed to, well, whatever. Historically, the American military has usually had a higher percentage of foreigners in the ranks than it does now. During the American Civil War about twenty percent of the Union Army was foreign born troops. There were entire divisions of Irish, Germans, or Scandinavians. For the rest of the 20th century the all-volunteer military continued to have a higher (than today) percentage of foreigners. Recruiting foreigners enabled the army to get more enthusiastic and capable recruits. Naturally they would have to speak acceptable English, just as resident foreigners in the United States or citizens from Puerto Rico must. The American military pay and benefits are competitive with U.S. civilian occupations but to many foreigners these pay levels are astronomical. The risk is low, as only about one in a thousand foreign born volunteers died in Iraq or Afghanistan. All that and you get to become a citizen of the United States after your four year enlistment is up. The only question was which line would be longer at American embassies, the one for visas or the one for military recruiting?

The United States is not alone in this acceptance of foreigners in the military. Take, for example, Britain. Two centuries ago Nepalese Gurkhas were first recruited into the British Indian army and then the British army. After India became independent in 1947, they too recruited Gurkhas for elite Indian infantry units. But service in the British army was considered a better deal. Britain has long recruited foreigners into its army and navy because there has always been a shortage of British citizens willing to serve.

Then there is the French Foreign Legion, which is supposed to be nothing but foreigners (except for the officers). But many French join, claiming to be from the French speaking parts of Belgium. No matter, if otherwise qualified the "Belgians" are signed up. In Italy, the Vatican (a small part of Rome that is an independent country controlled by the Roman Catholic Church) gets most of its security forces from Catholic areas of Switzerland. This is the Swiss Guard. While the French Foreign Legion dates from the 19th century, the Swiss have been serving as foreign mercenaries since the 15th century. But these contingents disappeared as better economic opportunities developed in Switzerland and mercenaries became less popular. Many other nations have successfully used foreigners in their armed forces. Not mercenaries but foreigners willing and able to serve next to the native born. It still works



What say you---good idea?

Worthwhile effort or merely a backdoor for Dreamers?

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 Post subject: Re: Military Thread
PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:50 am 
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As long as they will be FRENCH MARINES ... paid for by FRENCH PEOPLE ... fine by me ...

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 Post subject: Re: Military Thread
PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 1:46 pm 
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It sounds like a good plan to me. Best people to act as insurgents (on "our" side) in a foreign land is a foreigner. Best way to (a) train them properly; (b) "indoctrinate" them, meaning "build loyalty and rapport" and thus to make them (c) overall effective: make them part of OUR military, bring them here, train them here, let them have at least a "taste" of the sweet fruits of Americanness, and perhaps dangle the carrot of "American identity" in front of them until they have proven themselves.

When it was properly managed in the early stages of Imperial Rome, i.e., up through about Augustus perhaps a bit past, this very sort of system worked wonders for the Roman Empire. As decades and centuries drug on however, poor administration of and overreliance on this system was arguably a major weakness of the Empire and at least a symptom if not a cause for its decline and necrosis.

It all depends on how well it is managed. Keep it small at first (which means for about 10 to 20 years) see how it functions and go from there.

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 Post subject: Re: Military Thread
PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:00 pm 
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If that works for the French (and the Spaniards, Spain has a foreign legion too), that will certainly work for the Americans. And as everybody knows it, the units of the foreign legion are among the best ones of the French army. and like it is said in the article, in the FFL, the officers are French and not considered as legionnaires.


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 Post subject: Re: Military Thread
PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 10:34 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Military Thread
PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 4:03 am 
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First Finnish pilot (on the left) just landed on an American carrier, the USS Abraham Lincoln. The flight was performed with USMC training squadron's F-18 since USN doesn't allow fighters to land which haven't been maintained and cleared by them. Pilot flying the Hornet was Captain Juha Järvinen from Karelian Air Command:

Karelian Air Command consists of single squadron, Fighter Squadron 31 with it's 20 F-18s, forming the Karelian Wing which has ample experience from intercepting Russians that continuously invade our airspace in their area of operations specifically.

Järvinen has been involved in training exchange since 2016 at USMC Miramar base in California and has received similar training to USMC and USN pilots during this program.

Quote:
Capt. Juha "Stallion" Järvinen preformed an arrested landing on the Nimitz-Class aircraft carrier USS Abraham Lincoln (CVN 72) and is currently attached to Marine Fighter Attack Training Squadron (VMFAT) 101 to become qualified as a pilot instructor.


"It was pretty intense," said Jrvinen. "I was extremely happy because I knew I actually caught the wire when I felt the sensation of rapidly slowing down, but at the same time I was a little disappointed because I caught the second wire and not the third."
http://www.navy.mil/submit/display.asp?story_id=104763&utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_content=100000181871587&utm_campaign=Ops

Quote:
Before landing on an aircraft carrier, Jrvinen had to complete the same training that Navy and Marine Corps pilots undergo.

"We put him through the same repetitions of fuel carrier landing practice events that all students go through," said Maj. Shane Bursae, an instructor for VMFAT 101. "The purpose of this is so that when he does move on to teach students in the Finnish Air Force, he has knowledge and first-hand experience of what he is teaching."


Quote:
"The training is very valuable to me," said Jrvinen. "The way they fly is so different to what I'm used to, and I think the instructors figured out the perfect syllabus to train students."

Bursae was on the flight deck observing when Jrvinen landed for the first time.

"Seeing it happen, I was absolutely excited," said Bursae. "Having done it myself, I was happy that he could share in the challenge of it, but also the excitement of everything that goes with shipboard operations."

Järvinen is a part of the first pilot exchange between the United States Marine Corps and the Finnish Air force. He was hand-selected for the program by his superiors for his work ethic. Flying in the Finnish Air Force for 15 years and instructing for the last five, he has earned every qualification available as a Finnish pilot.

This program not only allows officers from the United States and Finland to build and improve upon their pilot training programs, it also strengthens the partnerships between these two countries and their military services.

"I think the program is a really good opportunity to see how other countries' pilots operate and train," said United States Marine Corps Capt. Michael Harp, the pilot schedules officer for VMFAT 101. "It's also cool from a cultural stand point to work with pilots from another country."
Järvinen plans to take his newly gained skills back to the Finnish Air Force and share his knowledge to his Finnish counterparts.

"I'm excited to bring back a lot of real experience," said Järvinen. "Not theory, but real life training experience. Now this is all reality to me, and I have a better understanding of the big picture."


Love it - our training is improved from the exchange and we can in theory build some rudimentary carrier landing skills and capabilities for some of our pilots with an instructor who is qualified with it.

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 Post subject: Re: Military Thread
PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 10:34 am 
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That does sound interesting Kameo. Congrats to the pilot on this accomplishment. It certainly does set a foundation for further cooperation.

I’m not sure how practical it is though.

How many opportunities would there/could there be for Finnish pilots to be operating off a US Navy carrier? For one on one situations (like this one) it works out fine.

However, what sort of military conflict would there be in which Finnish pilots would be operating off US carriers?
Finland’s sea zone is essentially limited to the Baltic Sea. Off the top of my head, I cannot ever recall a US Navy CV operating in the Baltic. There has never been a need for that since there are so many land air bases within range to operate from. The Baltic is small and there could be limitations with regards to movement (it being a confined area doesn’t help and with only the Straits of Denmark as an entrance/exit point I suspect would make some captains/fleet commanders nervous. I don’t know if The Kiel Canal in Germany could transit a vessel as large as a US CV...I doubt it). Now US carriers have operated out of the Mediterranean Sea, but that is much larger in comparison to the Baltic.

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 Post subject: Re: Military Thread
PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 10:48 am 
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From Wikipedia regarding the Kiel Canal:

Quote:
Maximum length for ships passing the Kiel Canal is 235.50 metres (772.6 ft); with the maximum width of 32.50 metres (106.6 ft) these ships can have a draught of up to 7.00 metres (22.97 ft). Ships up to a length of 160.00 metres (524.93 ft) may have a draught up to 9.50 metres (31.2 ft).[12] The bulker Ever Leader (deadweight 74001 t) is considered to be the cargo ship that to date has come closest to the overall limits.[13]



I think that rules out any US CV from passage thru the Kiel Canal.

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