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 Post subject: Re: What's Finland up to ?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 5:24 am 
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Kameolontti wrote:
The biggest problem is if you try to do something - if you set up a business, you lose every form of support. Entrepreneurship is the only way in Finland to end up in a position where you cannot buy food and pay your bills.


This is the absolute key of why a citizen's income is an idea worth trying.

ATM we have means tested welfare and thats far worse, you are punished for trying.

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 Post subject: Re: What's Finland up to ?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 5:50 am 
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EUBanana wrote:
Kameolontti wrote:
The biggest problem is if you try to do something - if you set up a business, you lose every form of support. Entrepreneurship is the only way in Finland to end up in a position where you cannot buy food and pay your bills.


This is the absolute key of why a citizen's income is an idea worth trying.

ATM we have means tested welfare and thats far worse, you are punished for trying.


I agree.

But are those 50 entrepreneurs getting free startup money and endless "runway" worth the 5,000 people who drop out of work and start making progressive rock 4 hours a week (jeez, how can they keep that up)?

I mean, they could be. One guy creating a billion dollar annually enterprise can easily produce more taxes than the 5,000 low income workers. And medium to high income workers would not quit their jobs - they make too much money and chances are that they might have had something to do with where they work because those jobs usually require some pre thought unlike low income jobs.

I know I could try a new business idea every 3 years with fully developed products with that kind of system. But knowing the regular Jussi and Jaakko I bet they'd just drop their effort to a fraction of a fraction as soon as their lives didn't depend on it. So many people have no internal motivation to get ahead.

I mean, sometimes it's hard enough to keep people motivated when they make 3-5k a month. Think about that too.

I certainly wouldn't be excited about funding other people's self fulfillment projects.

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 Post subject: Re: What's Finland up to ?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 6:49 pm 
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Hair in the soap
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EUBanana wrote:
Kameolontti wrote:
The biggest problem is if you try to do something - if you set up a business, you lose every form of support. Entrepreneurship is the only way in Finland to end up in a position where you cannot buy food and pay your bills.


This is the absolute key of why a citizen's income is an idea worth trying.

ATM we have means tested welfare and thats far worse, you are punished for trying.


That's definitely an issue.

Regarding a livable basic income, I don't think it will be feasible until we have an extremely expanded amount of automation in the economy. Throughout all of humanity.

That will be a long time, however, and just reaching such an iota-scarcity situation will be a long & rough change, too. :?

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