Trump, Trump, Trump

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chijohnaok
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Re: Trump, Trump, Trump

#2651 Post by chijohnaok » Sat Dec 21, 2019 8:38 pm


I am just curious what kind of sanctions there is going to be and what will be the effect.
I am going to go out on a limb and suspect that you never even bothered clicking on the linked article.
Am I wrong?
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Re: Trump, Trump, Trump

#2652 Post by Mac » Sat Dec 21, 2019 9:25 pm

chijohnaok wrote:
Sat Dec 21, 2019 8:38 pm

I am just curious what kind of sanctions there is going to be and what will be the effect.
I am going to go out on a limb and suspect that you never even bothered clicking on the linked article.
Am I wrong?
Of course he didn't, it would destroy his narrative. What a numpty.
I could be the catalyst that sparks the revolution
I could be an inmate in a long-term institution
I could dream to wide extremes, I could do or die
I could yawn and be withdrawn and watch the world go by
What a waste...

nero
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Re: Trump, Trump, Trump

#2653 Post by nero » Sun Dec 22, 2019 5:49 am

chijohnaok wrote:
Sat Dec 21, 2019 8:38 pm

I am just curious what kind of sanctions there is going to be and what will be the effect.
I am going to go out on a limb and suspect that you never even bothered clicking on the linked article.
Am I wrong?
Actually I did read the BBC article. But I could not find anything about the actual sanctions. Perhaps my reading comprehension has deteriorated since 1974 when I got grade laudatur in the student exam. :(

Perhaps you can show what I am missing in the Beeb article.
A stupid person is a person who causes losses to another person or to a group of persons while himself deriving no gain and even possibly incurring losses. -- Carlo M. Cipolla

Mit der Dummheit kämpfen selbst Götter vergebens. -- Friedrich Schiller

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Re: Trump, Trump, Trump

#2654 Post by nero » Mon Dec 23, 2019 7:07 am

More observations on Trump's sanction policies.
IGOR DERYSH wrote: Image

Image

Trump administration opposes Graham's Russia sanctions bill after meeting with Kremlin official

The news arrives exactly one week after Trump met with Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov in the Oval Office

he Trump administration quietly launched an effort to gut a bipartisan Senate bill aimed at countering Russian aggression.

The bill was first introduced by Trump ally Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C., in 2018 and re-introduced again this year. The legislation, which Graham calls a “sanctions bill from hell,” came in response to Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, its interference in the 2016 U.S. election, its activities in Syria and its attacks on Russian dissidents.

The Defending American Security from Kremlin Aggression Act of 2019 (DASKA) would impose sanctions on Russian oligarchs, banks and sovereign debt. The bill would also sanction Russian ship-building and energy industries. The legislation also requires the State Department and Intelligence Community to report to Congress whether Russia is meddling in U.S. elections every 90 days.

Though the bill has drawn bipartisan support, the Trump administration sent a 22-page letter to Senate Foreign Relations Chairman Jim Risch, R-Idaho, saying that it “strongly opposes” the bill in its current form. The letter was first obtained by The Daily Beast.

The letter took issue with the bill’s requirement for the administration to report Russian election meddling. The letter said the provision was “designed for failure,” because it “seems impossible” to certify that Russia is not meddling in elections.

The letter argues that the entire bill is “unnecessary,” because the administration has already “aggressively imposed sanctions” on Russia (despite Trump’s own opposition to the previous sanctions).

The administration argued that the “most objectionable” parts of the bill were the broad sanctions on Russian oligarchs and industries, which the letter argued would “negatively impact” American energy markets.

The letter demanded a large number of revisions, particularly ”making these new sanctions permissive instead of framed as mandates” and giving the administration “unconditioned waiver authority” over the sanctions.

It also argued that the requirements in the bill "would divert resources from the ongoing aggressive targeting of Russian malign actors under existing authorities . . . as well as from efforts with respect to Iran, North Korea, ISIS, Venezuela, Hezbollah, counterterrorism, human rights and corruption and other (U.S. government) priorities."

The letter, signed by the State Department’s Bureau of Legislative Affairs Assistant Secretary Mary Elizabeth Taylor, came exactly a week after Trump met with Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov in the Oval Office.

Trump’s opposition did not stop the Foreign Relations Committee from voting 17-5 to advance the bill to a full Senate vote, though Risch, along with Sens. Rand Paul, R-Ky., Johnny Isakson, R-Ga., John Barrasso, R-Wy., and Ron Johnson, R-Wis., all voted against it.

Graham said Wednesday that he was "incredibly pleased with the overwhelming bipartisan support for my legislation,” according to CNN. He added that he was open to amending the bill.

"This strong vote indicates an overwhelming desire by the Senate as a whole to push back against Russian interference in our election and Putin's misadventures throughout the world," Graham said."I am committed to working with my colleagues to improve this legislation, but it must be strong to be meaningful.”

Samuel Charap, a senior political scientist at the RAND Corporation, told CNN that no sitting president likes congressionally-imposed sanctions, but the Graham bill shows that “Congress doesn't trust the president on Russia policy.” Republicans tried to walk a tightrope during the debate of the bill in trying to “bash Mr. Putin without impugning Mr. Trump,” The New York Times reported.

Despite the administration’s claim that it already “aggressively” imposed sanctions on Russia, Trump was six months late in imposing congressionally-required sanctions on the U.S. adversary after the poisoning of former Russian spy Sergei Skripal and his daughter in the U.K.

Trump has repeatedly pushed a Kremlin propaganda talking point that Ukraine — not Russia — interfered in the election. He entered the White House calling to lift Russian sanctions and has repeatedly defended Russian President Vladimir Putin. Trump administration officials previously attempted to water down sanctions against Russia and ease sanctions on the companies of a Putin-linked oligarch, which long employed former Trump campaign chief Paul Manafort, who is currently serving a court-mandated sentence in federal prison.

Trump’s relentless defense of Putin, as well as his denial of Russian interference in the 2016 election, ultimately led to his impeachment. Trump lawyer Rudy Giuliani’s scheme to pressure Ukraine into investigating former Vice President Joe Biden began as an attempt to discredit the Russia probe and prove that Ukraine actually meddled in the election.

After the impeachment vote, it was Putin who defended Trump.

"The Democratic Party, which lost the elections, is now trying to revise this history through the means that they have at their disposal — first by accusing Trump of collusion with Russia. But then it turned out there was no collusion," Putin said on Thursday. "It could not form the basis for impeachment, and now there is this made-up pressure on Ukraine."

Putin added that he was confident Republicans would keep Trump in office.

“As far as I know the Republicans hold the majority so it's unlikely they will want to remove the representative of their party for some made-up reasons,” he said.
To claim that Trump is hard on sanctions is just wrong. The opposite is more true like with most things with Trump. And when add to the consideration the fact that lifting the sanctions is Putin's primary short term foreign policy goal.

Can you connect some dots here? :roll:
A stupid person is a person who causes losses to another person or to a group of persons while himself deriving no gain and even possibly incurring losses. -- Carlo M. Cipolla

Mit der Dummheit kämpfen selbst Götter vergebens. -- Friedrich Schiller

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Re: Trump, Trump, Trump

#2655 Post by jack t ripper » Mon Dec 23, 2019 10:01 am

It clearly IS impossible to certify that Russia is not meddling in US elections. It would be easier to certify that Obama is no longer bisexual.
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Re: Trump, Trump, Trump

#2656 Post by chijohnaok » Mon Dec 23, 2019 10:55 am

Hey Nero,

The US does have sanctions in place against Russia.

If you are concerned about economic or trade policies that benefit Russia perhaps you should look closer to home.
The Netherlands imports almost twice as much from Russia as the United States does.
Germany imports more from Russia than the United States.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of ... _of_Russia

Furthermore,
The EU is the largest investor in Russia, with an estimated stock of €216 billion in 2017
https://ec.europa.eu/trade/policy/count ... es/russia/

To me it appears as if the EU is a much bigger supporter of Putin’s Russia than the United States is.
The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public’s money.
- misattributed to Alexis De Tocqueville

No representations made as to the accuracy of info in posted news articles or links

nero
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Re: Trump, Trump, Trump

#2657 Post by nero » Mon Dec 23, 2019 11:06 am

jack t ripper wrote:
Mon Dec 23, 2019 10:01 am
It clearly IS impossible to certify that Russia is not meddling in US elections. It would be easier to certify that Obama is no longer bisexual.
As difficult as to prove that god does not exists. OTOH appearance even a lesser god would prove that a god exists. Ergo, it not difficult to sanction Russia for election meddling, one exemplar is enough. :)

As for the sanctions: lifting the Oleg Deripaska/Rusal sanctions smells especially odious. Somehow Moscow Mitch is corrupted to Rusal. :roll:
Last edited by nero on Mon Dec 23, 2019 11:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
A stupid person is a person who causes losses to another person or to a group of persons while himself deriving no gain and even possibly incurring losses. -- Carlo M. Cipolla

Mit der Dummheit kämpfen selbst Götter vergebens. -- Friedrich Schiller

jack t ripper
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Re: Trump, Trump, Trump

#2658 Post by jack t ripper » Mon Dec 23, 2019 11:10 am

It's a perfect strike from Rodgers in the corner of the Green Bay end zone with time expired...Chijohn spikes the football...he's jumps up into the stands for the adulation of the crowd!!
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Re: Trump, Trump, Trump

#2659 Post by nero » Mon Dec 23, 2019 11:17 am

chijohnaok wrote:
Mon Dec 23, 2019 10:55 am
Hey Nero,

The US does have sanctions in place against Russia.

If you are concerned about economic or trade policies that benefit Russia perhaps you should look closer to home.
The Netherlands imports almost twice as much from Russia as the United States does.
Germany imports more from Russia than the United States.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of ... _of_Russia

Furthermore,
The EU is the largest investor in Russia, with an estimated stock of €216 billion in 2017
https://ec.europa.eu/trade/policy/count ... es/russia/

To me it appears as if the EU is a much bigger supporter of Putin’s Russia than the United States is.
The US sanction power is not about trade, but the fact the the US dollar is the account currency gives it enormous sanction power. Stopping money money transfers hurt much more efficiently than tariffs.
A stupid person is a person who causes losses to another person or to a group of persons while himself deriving no gain and even possibly incurring losses. -- Carlo M. Cipolla

Mit der Dummheit kämpfen selbst Götter vergebens. -- Friedrich Schiller

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Re: Trump, Trump, Trump

#2660 Post by Anthropoid » Mon Dec 23, 2019 12:08 pm

E.U. hypocrisy about Russia is tiresome and pathetic.

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