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 Post subject: Re: Trump, Trump, Trump
PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2019 8:38 pm 
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nero wrote:
chijohnaok wrote:
I believe the last time Congress requested someone's income tax returns was a a bipartisan decision in 1974 to request Richard Nixon's returns (and again, that was a BIPARTISAN) request.

A request that is not bipartisan (which I believe the request for Trump's returns wa) is on its face a partisan effort, more for political purposes and not something related to Congressional oversight.


There is no need, by the law to have a bi-partisan request for someone's tax data. And the legislative motive could be like preparing a law that requires every presidential candidate to publish their tax data for a certain number of years, say ten. ;)



Quote:
And the legislative motive could be like preparing a law that requires every presidential candidate to publish their tax data for a certain number of years, say ten. ;)


Once again Nero you have demonstrated your ignorance of American laws and politics.

Here are the Requirements, as specified in the US Constitution, to be elected President:

Qualifications for the Office of President
* Age and Citizenship requirements - US Constitution, Article II, Section 1
* No person except a natural born citizen, or a citizen of the United States, at the time of the adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President; neither shall any person be eligible to that office who shall not have attained to the age of thirty-five years, and been fourteen years a resident within the United States.

https://www.presidentsusa.net/qualifications.html



———
Presidential eligibility
Article II, Section 1, Clause 5 of the Constitution sets three qualifications for holding the presidency. To serve as president, one must:
* be a natural-born U.S. citizen of the United States;
* be at least thirty-five years old;
* be a resident in the United States for at least fourteen years.[1]
A person who meets the above qualifications would, however, still be disqualified from holding the office of president under any of the following conditions:
* Under the Twenty-second Amendment, no person can be elected president more than twice. The amendment also specifies that if any eligible person serves as president or acting president for more than two years of a term for which some other eligible person was elected president, the former can only be elected president once.[2][3]
* Under Article I, Section 3, Clause 7, upon conviction in impeachment cases, the Senate has the option of disqualifying convicted individuals from holding federal office, including that of president.[4]
* Under Section 3 of the Fourteenth Amendment, no person who swore an oath to support the Constitution, and later rebelled against the United States, can become president. However, this disqualification can be lifted by a two-thirds vote of each house of Congress.[5]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_ ... egislation


There is no requirement under the Constitution for a candidate for President to submit their tax returns.
Congress cannot simply pass a law to change that.
It would require an amendment to the Constitution.

Laws have to be passed by both the Senate AND the House, then signed off on by the President. The President could also VETO the law.

Even IF the House were to pass such a bill, AND even IF the Senate also passed it (which it would likely never do) AND even IF President Trump signed it into law (which he would likely never do), it would still likely be ruled by the Supreme Court as unconstitutional.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump, Trump, Trump
PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2019 10:31 pm 
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I bet the President liked this song back in the day . . .

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 Post subject: Re: Trump, Trump, Trump
PostPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 1:20 am 
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chijohnaok wrote:
nero wrote:
...
There is no need, by the law to have a bi-partisan request for someone's tax data. And the legislative motive could be like preparing a law that requires every presidential candidate to publish their tax data for a certain number of years, say ten. ;)



Quote:
And the legislative motive could be like preparing a law that requires every presidential candidate to publish their tax data for a certain number of years, say ten. ;)


Once again Nero you have demonstrated your ignorance of American laws and politics.

Here are the Requirements, as specified in the US Constitution, to be elected President:

Qualifications for the Office of President
* Age and Citizenship requirements - US Constitution, Article II, Section 1
* No person except a natural born citizen, or a citizen of the United States, at the time of the adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President; neither shall any person be eligible to that office who shall not have attained to the age of thirty-five years, and been fourteen years a resident within the United States.

https://www.presidentsusa.net/qualifications.html



———
Presidential eligibility
Article II, Section 1, Clause 5 of the Constitution sets three qualifications for holding the presidency. To serve as president, one must:
* be a natural-born U.S. citizen of the United States;
* be at least thirty-five years old;
* be a resident in the United States for at least fourteen years.[1]
A person who meets the above qualifications would, however, still be disqualified from holding the office of president under any of the following conditions:
* Under the Twenty-second Amendment, no person can be elected president more than twice. The amendment also specifies that if any eligible person serves as president or acting president for more than two years of a term for which some other eligible person was elected president, the former can only be elected president once.[2][3]
* Under Article I, Section 3, Clause 7, upon conviction in impeachment cases, the Senate has the option of disqualifying convicted individuals from holding federal office, including that of president.[4]
* Under Section 3 of the Fourteenth Amendment, no person who swore an oath to support the Constitution, and later rebelled against the United States, can become president. However, this disqualification can be lifted by a two-thirds vote of each house of Congress.[5]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_ ... egislation


There is no requirement under the Constitution for a candidate for President to submit their tax returns.
Congress cannot simply pass a law to change that.
It would require an amendment to the Constitution.

Laws have to be passed by both the Senate AND the House, then signed off on by the President. The President could also VETO the law.

Even IF the House were to pass such a bill, AND even IF the Senate also passed it (which it would likely never do) AND even IF President Trump signed it into law (which he would likely never do), it would still likely be ruled by the Supreme Court as unconstitutional.

Does the Constitution mention anything about ISR, tax returns or related?

The other thing is some states like California are planning legislation to requite presidential candidates to publish their tax data. ;)

If there is a thing that the Constitution does not mention, does not mean that it is unconstitutional? Taking that line cars, airplanes, computers and whatnot would be unconstitutional. :lol:

Just a thought. ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Trump, Trump, Trump
PostPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 8:13 am 
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I wouldn't call that "a thought." I'd call it incessant prattling with bloated, unnecessary quotations.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump, Trump, Trump
PostPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 9:27 am 
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Anthropoid wrote:
I wouldn't call that "a thought." I'd call it incessant prattling with bloated, unnecessary quotations.

Is my silent treatment now officially over?

Just a question. :roll:

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Mit der Dummheit kämpfen selbst Götter vergebens. -- Friedrich Schiller


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 Post subject: Re: Trump, Trump, Trump
PostPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 10:10 am 
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nero wrote:
Anthropoid wrote:
I wouldn't call that "a thought." I'd call it incessant prattling with bloated, unnecessary quotations.

Is my silent treatment now officially over?

Just a question. :roll:


No, no . . I'm still ignoring you :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Trump, Trump, Trump
PostPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 10:26 am 
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CA and NY cant preempt the constitution by attempting to add additional requirements.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump, Trump, Trump
PostPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 10:31 am 
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Anthropoid wrote:
nero wrote:
Is my silent treatment now officially over?

Just a question. :roll:


No, no . . I'm still ignoring you :lol:

Is that a promise?

Excellent. :mrgreen:

PS. No cheating like you have recently done. :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: Trump, Trump, Trump
PostPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 11:18 am 
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nero wrote:

Does the Constitution mention anything about ISR, tax returns or related?

The other thing is some states like California are planning legislation to requite presidential candidates to publish their tax data. ;)

If there is a thing that the Constitution does not mention, does not mean that it is unconstitutional? Taking that line cars, airplanes, computers and whatnot would be unconstitutional. :lol:

Just a thought. ;)


The US Constitution, as written and passed by the Founding Fathers, made no mention of the IRS or tax returns. (But don't start celebrating yet Nero).

The reason for that was because the Founding Fathers never allowed for the direct assessment of a federal tax, on individuals, based on their income.

Now granted, Congress did pass a temporary federal income tax during the American Civil War, to pay for the cost of the war. But that was repealed in 1872.

Congress passed the Wilson–Gorman Tariff Act in 1894, which reduced tariffs and called for a 2% on income over $4,000.
That was challenged in court. In 1895 the Supreme Court struck down the income tax imposed by the Wilson–Gorman Tariff Act for being an unapportioned direct tax. It was ruled unconstitutional.

So where do Federal Income taxes come from then?

Sixteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution

Quote:
The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration.


It required an amendment to the US Constitution for the federal government to start collecting income taxes again.

It was only with the passage of the 16th Amendment, that the need for income tax returns, and the IRS develop.

Quote:
The other thing is some states like California are planning legislation to requite presidential candidates to publish their tax data. ;)


MDiehl already referenced this.

I predict that if those state laws are passed, they will be challenged in court because they create a requirement for becoming president that is not stated in the US Constitution.


Quote:
If there is a thing that the Constitution does not mention, does not mean that it is unconstitutional? Taking that line cars, airplanes, computers and whatnot would be unconstitutional. :lol:


New "things" (such as cares, airplane and computers) may be created/invented, provided they do not conflict with rights or other things in the US Constitution.
This is no different that some governmental entity (such as a state or the US Congress) passing a new law, which infringes on a Constitutional right.

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The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public’s money.
- misattributed to Alexis De Tocqueville

No representations made as to the accuracy of info in posted news articles or links


Last edited by chijohnaok on Sun Aug 11, 2019 11:31 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump, Trump, Trump
PostPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 11:22 am 
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nero wrote:
Anthropoid wrote:
-=-=-NERO-=-=-
Is my silent treatment now officially over?

Just a question. :roll:-=-=-NERO-=-=-

No, no . . I'm still ignoring you :lol:

Is that a promise?

Excellent. :mrgreen:

PS. No cheating like you have recently done. :roll:


Your mastery of English is impressive, but I think you have inferred a bit too much. I did not say I "still have you set to Ignore status" in my user control panel ;)

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