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 Post subject: Re: Trump, Trump, Trump
PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 3:48 pm 
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wulfir wrote:


Can some Yanks explain this video, maybe...


The Navajo Code Talkers were a group of Navajo Indians (PC term Native Americans) who served in the US Marine Corps during WW2. The Japanese had been intercepting radio communications the Marines were sending out. And they were able to break the code words the Marines were using as well. The Navajo language is a complex language and at that time it was still an unwritten language. The a simple set of code words was created but since the Navajo language they were using was unknown to the Japanese (and unwritten so that it could not be referenced from existing books) its proved useful in relaying orders over the radio during battles.

You can read up more about code talkers here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code_talker

Here is a short video concerning their actions during the war:



There was also a movie with Nicolas Cage that was loosely based on the code talkers:



The purpose of the meeting at the White House was to honor the Navajo Code Talkers. Those Native Americans there had served during WW2 as Code Talkers.
So Trump was giving them praise and honoring them in the video.

Now, about the "Pocohontas" comment.

A US Senator, Elizabeth Warren, ran into some issues some years ago. From the 1970s through the 1990s she was an academic who worked at a number of different universities. In 1992 she worked a year at Harvard University as a Visiting Professor. In 1995 she joined Harvard as a professor there at Harvard Law School.

Quote:
No proof has emerged that confirms that Massachusetts Sen. Elizabeth Warren is, as she has claimed, part Native American. Likewise, no proof has surfaced that Warren was previously hired as a professor by any university based on her alleged heritage.

The subject of Warren’s ancestry came to national attention in April 2012, when she was a candidate trying to unseat then-Sen. Scott Brown, the Republican incumbent.

The Boston Herald reported that Warren had previously been touted in the 1990s by officials at Harvard Law School, where she was a tenured professor, as an example of the faculty’s diversity. That led to the revelation that Warren — citing only anecdotal evidence — claimed to be part Cherokee and Delaware Indian, and had listed herself as a minority in a directory of law professors from 1986 until 1995.

Brown and others then accused Warren of claiming to be a descendant of American Indians to advance her career in academia, which Warren has repeatedly denied doing.

“Let me be clear. I never asked for, never got any benefit because of my heritage,” Warren said in a 2012 TV ad rebutting claims made by Brown.

The controversy resurfaced after President Donald Trump — as he had done before — referred to the Democratic senator as “Pocahontas” during a Nov. 27 ceremony at the White House to honor Navajo code talkers from World War II.

Our readers have been asking about Warren’s lineage and career ever since.

As we said, Warren has provided no actual documentation to substantiate her claim of having Native American blood.

Warren, who was born and raised in Oklahoma, has said that her parents and grandparents, who are now deceased, were the sources of that information.

“I am very proud of my heritage,” Warren said at the time, according to news articles. “These are my family stories. This is what my brothers and I were told by my mom and my dad, my mammaw and my pappaw. This is our lives. And I’m very proud of it.”

In that 2012 campaign ad, Warren said that her parents had to elope because her father’s family didn’t like that her mother “was part Cherokee and part Delaware.”

At one point, Christopher Child, a genealogist at the New England Historic Genealogical Society, said that he had discovered possible supporting evidence. The Boston Globe reported that Child found a newsletter that indicated that Warren’s great-great-great grandmother had been listed as Cherokee on a marriage document in 1894. That would make Warren 1/32 American Indian, he said.

But the Globe later noted in a correction that neither the newspaper nor the genealogical society had seen the alleged primary document, only the family newsletter alluding to it.


http://www.factcheck.org/2017/12/elizab ... ntroversy/

From other sources that I have read in the past she passed herself off as part Native American, and IIRC, Harvard had been criticized for their lack of minorities in their staff. So when Harvard found out that she was part Native American they were only too happy to emphasize this. I don't think its been proven that she was hired based on her alleged "minority" status, but Harvard played it up, and Warren seemed to play along with it as well. She contributed what she claimed was a family recipe to a cook book that Harvard put out, supposedly made up of Native American recipes.
Here is a photo of a copy of the book that she autographed:

Image

Some have even claimed that the family recipe that she contributed was actually from some well known restaurant.

You can read more about that here:
https://www.steynonline.com/8279/washington-redskin

So when she ran for Senate in 2012 this popped up as an issue:
Quote:
In April 2012, the Boston Herald sparked a campaign controversy by reporting that from 1986 to 1995 Warren had listed herself as a racial minority in the Association of American Law Schools (AALS) directories, called the AALS Directory of Law Teachers.[64] Harvard Law School had identified Warren as a "woman of color", in response to criticisms about a lack of faculty diversity.[64][65][66]

Scott Brown, her Republican opponent in the Senate race, accused Warren of dishonesty, speculating that she had fabricated Native American heritage to gain advantage in the job market.[67][68][69] Former colleagues and supervisors at universities where she had worked stated that Warren's ancestry played no role in her hiring.[65][66][69][70] Warren stated that she had listed herself as a minority to meet people of similar heritage, and was unaware that Harvard had listed her as a woman of color.[71] Her brothers defended her, stating that they "grew up listening to our mother and grandmother and other relatives talk about our family's Cherokee and Delaware heritage".[72] In her 2014 autobiography, Warren stated that she had gained no career advantage from her heritage, and described the allegations as untrue and hurtful.[73] Genealogical investigators could not find proof that Warren's ancestors were or were not Native American.[69][74][75] The Oklahoma Historical Society said that finding a definitive answer about Native American heritage can be difficult because of intermarriage and deliberate avoidance of registration

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth ... 2_election

Somewhere along the line someone assigned her the nickname "Pocahontas" as a negative term for her being a fake Indian.

Pres. Trump has criticized Warren in the past and used the Pocahontas term.

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Last edited by chijohnaok on Sun Dec 03, 2017 4:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump, Trump, Trump
PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 4:02 pm 
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I think you can say it was somewhat discourteous to the code talkers because they were being recognized but it was not racist because it was Warren who set herself up for this with her bull shit and insulting claim to be native American in order to gain academic favors.

My question is was this pure instinct on Trump's part or was it calculated? I'm leaning toward calculated intent because in the same week he tweaked Warren by replacing her hand-picked shill at the consumer protection agency. Thanks to the angst, hundreds of thousands of Americans who probably never heard of Warren now know she lied to get a job. I am pretty certain now that Trump will run again and he might well want to go up against Warren....who is an absolute anti-capitalist.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump, Trump, Trump
PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 4:05 pm 
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We have all seen how Trump destroys opponents by setting narrative early on.

"Low energy Jeb"
"Little Marco"
"Lying Ted"
"Crooked Hillary" :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Trump, Trump, Trump
PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 4:20 pm 
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Didn't the "Pocahontas" reference, to Warren's uncouth jockeying for favor, originally spread via the internet?

I don't quite recall where it originated, but that's where it spread into the popular meme reference for her.

Trump may be awkward at times, but he obviously uses the internet enough to pick up some troll-munition. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Trump, Trump, Trump
PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 4:27 pm 
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chijohnaok wrote:
Somewhere along the line someone assigned her the nickname "Pocahontas" as a negative term for her being a fake Indian.


That goes for anybody trying to pass as a bonafide redskin or is it just Warren...?

IIRC there were codetalkers in Europe/the Med too...


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 Post subject: Re: Trump, Trump, Trump
PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 4:28 pm 
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NefariousKoel wrote:
Didn't the "Pocahontas" reference, to Warren's uncouth jockeying for favor, originally spread via the internet?

I don't quite recall where it originated, but that's where it spread into the popular meme reference for her.

Trump may be awkward at times, but he obviously uses the internet enough to pick up some troll-munition. :lol:



I first became aware of the Pocahontas nickname in 2012 when she ran for the US Senate.
Trump didn’t create it but he surely hasn’t passed up the opportunity to use it.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump, Trump, Trump
PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 4:33 pm 
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wulfir wrote:
chijohnaok wrote:
Somewhere along the line someone assigned her the nickname "Pocahontas" as a negative term for her being a fake Indian.


That goes for anybody trying to pass as a bonafide redskin or is it just Warren...?

IIRC there were codetalkers in Europe/the Med too...


I am not aware of the nickname being used for “fake Indians” in general. I’ve only heard the nickname applied to Sen. Warren.

And yes, there were code talkers elsewhere. The Wikipedia article I linked gives examples of code talker using other Indian tribes, other US armed forces branches using them and I believe that they we’re used in theaters other than the Pacific. I think the Wiki article even said there were a group of code talking Basques that were used.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump, Trump, Trump
PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 4:38 pm 
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Just to be clear here: None of us actually know what Warren's genotype looks like. Assuming those genotype analysis things are not 100% scam (I'm confident they are at least 33% scam, but there probably is some kernel of truth to the partitioning results they return) this is something which could be "known."

If in fact, she DOES have some "Native American" genetics indicated, then her claims that she "has some Cherokee ancestry" are perfectly legit. A lot of us have mixed ancestry in the U.S. especially folks whose ancestors were peasants, slaves, indentured servants or yeoman farmers (i.e., me, Doggie, and probably many of us on this board and in the country in general). Aristocrats like midol, and Neero are probably more "pure blooded," but even there . . . if you go back a couple more generations they too might well have ancestry that reflects mixing.

I'm perfectly fine with people attacking Warren for her ham-fisted and guileful effort to win advantages by reference to some small genetic fraction of her ancestry and her apparent attempts to conflate that biological ancestry with her somehow embodying "diversity" or even more ridiculous, carrying on "native culture" (e.g., the cookbook seems to reflect that).

Just don't confuse the fact that her phenotype appears "pure WASP" with the idea that she (her genotype and her "unseen phenotype" meaning all the aspects of her developing biology that are not immediately obvious to the eye) "is pure WASP."

It is the minority of Americans who are "pure" anything.

Go to Youtube and type in "Africans finding out they have Euro ancestry"
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_ ... o+ancestry



If Warren had simply been trying to convey that "Even me, a 'Lilly White' WASP have some 'minority' ancestry . . . many of us in American are mutts . . ." then any of her claims about native American ancestry would be perfectly legit. If she had some biological test results to back up the idea that SHE actually has some native American ancestry then she would be perfectly legit there too.

But she was attempting to play the "race card" and that is why her behavior was repugnant. Just don't play the race card to rebutt and you're good to go.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump, Trump, Trump
PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 4:58 pm 
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wulfir wrote:
chijohnaok wrote:
Somewhere along the line someone assigned her the nickname "Pocahontas" as a negative term for her being a fake Indian.


That goes for anybody trying to pass as a bonafide redskin or is it just Warren...?

IIRC there were codetalkers in Europe/the Med too...



Many of the old Euro-American families likely have some native blood in them, from the distant past. Despite what some revisionists would have you believe, many of the natives joined modern society and interbred. Especially among the tribes in the east.

There wasn't widespread systematic genocide, as some of the hysteric types have been led to believe and try to spread. Sure, there were small isolated incidents of conflict, in history, and the "Trail of Tears" was both injustice and neglect by the US govt. But many of the natives mixed with the population.

By the start of the 20th century, many Americans were proud of, and respected, native culture. I suppose that, today, some whiners would call it "cultural appropriation", but it was just respect. Also the perpetuation of the 'noble savage' stereotype. You can see the American reverence in their symbols and mascots after this time. Such as the Indian head squadron insignia used by the American pilot volunteers in WW1's Lafayette Escadrille, and numerous other military unit insignia during the century.

Image

The native americans who have remained on tribal lands are those who wanted to remain culturally separate from the American melting pot and retain the old ways. Which is quite alright, if that's what they want. But there were many who didn't stay isolated - their ancestors are still here, although often a lighter hue these days.



The thing is.. native americans are offered extra gov't assistance, programs, and even part ownership in lands & properties nowadays. Aside from any diversity virtue-signalling some mostly European person might try to claim (which may not always be true, obviously) there are many solid benefits available for those with provable native blood. But most states and/or tribal nations require a minimum of racial purity in order to qualify.

I've seen many requisites of 1/8th parentage required. In other words, a full-blooded great grandparent, minimum. More rarely 1/4 or 1/16 depending on state or tribe. These are for the tangible benefits (money, property assistance/grants).

The other benefit, as you can see with the Warren claims, may be less tangible. When someone claims they're part native in order to get special consideration or privilege. In her case, from an institution concerned about their diversity image or affirmative action requirements.

As you can deduce, it's probably offensive to some of the more pure-blooded native americans to have some white woman, even with native blood from four generations back, claiming to be one of them simply to get special treatment. Especially when it's some career politician/lawyer silver spooner at a fancy high-dollar school. Hence the "Pocahontas" jest for congresswoman Warren's rather despicable claim.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump, Trump, Trump
PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 5:29 pm 
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You guys got a word for a white woman pretending to be black. IIRC there was a case of that a few years back...


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