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 Post subject: Re: The F-35
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 2:11 pm 
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So now Japan is considering purchase of the F-35B (V/STOL) variant:

http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-bu ... ates-24544

Quote:
Japan Might Buy as Many as 40 F-35B Fighters, Report States

Zachary Keck
February 18, 2018

Japan is officially drawing up plans to acquire the F-35B, according to local media reports.

This week, The Yomiuri Shimbun, a Japanese newspaper, said that Shinzo Abe’s administration “is planning to indicate the number of [F-35B] aircraft to be procured in the next Medium Term Defense Program, which is to be compiled at the end of this year.” The story went on to report that the Abe government is “mulling including related expenses in the fiscal 2019 budget plan, with a view to starting the delivery of F-35Bs from around fiscal 2024.”


Sources told The Yomiuri Shimbun that one plan is for Tokyo to acquire between twenty to forty F-35Bs, which would correspond to one or two squadrons. The planes would serve as the successors to the F-15, the Japanese Air Self Defense Forces’ current workhorse aircraft. Currently, Japan operates around 200 F-15s. One 102 of these will remain in service after being upgraded with more modern equipment. The rest will be replaced by the F-35B and the successor to the F-2 jet, under the plan being considered.

The F-35B is the U.S. Marine’s version of the Joint Strike Fighter. Unlike the other variants of the F-35, the F-35B is capable of short takeoff/vertical landing (STOVL). According to Lockheed Martin, the maker of the jet, it is the “the world’s first supersonic STOVL stealth aircraft.” As Lockheed Martin also notes, the F-35B “is designed to operate from austere bases and a range of air-capable ships near front-line combat zones.”

These features are the primary attraction of the jet to Japan. The Yomiuri Shimbun article notes that Tokyo is interested in the F-35B because it can operate from commercial air strips rather than requiring longer military air strips. Japan sees this as especially valuable because some of its most distant islands only maintain commercial airports. Thus, the F-35B could help defend these islands. It would also allow the planes to disperse if Japan’s military bases came under attack from a country like China’s ballistic missiles. “The minimum runway length required for the advanced fighter to take off is relatively short, making it more likely to be able to actually take off even when the airstrip at its home base is under attack,’ the article states.

Of course, as the article also notes, the F-35B would be the perfect aircraft if Japan wanted to operate fixed-wing aircraft from its Izumo-class helicopter destroyers, an idea I noted that Tokyo was considering back in December of last year. When the first of those massive helicopter destroyers was unveiled in 2013, many observers called it an “aircraft carrier in disguise.” It wasn’t hard to see why. The ship is roughly 250 meters (820 feet) long and displaces 24,000 tons. As I wrote back in 2013, the Izumo-class destroyers are about 50 percent bigger (in terms of displacement) than Japan’s then-largest ship, the Hyuga-class helicopter destroyer. Others have pointed out that the ships are actually larger than Spain and Italy’s short take-off and vertical landing (STOVL) aircraft carriers. And, for good measure, the Izumo-class helicopter destroyers—of which Japan currently has two—were built with a hanger that can handle fixed-wing aircraft.

Still, some modifications would have to be made for the F-35B to operate off of the Izumo-class destroyer. When Reuters first reported in December that Japan was considering this option, it reported that a refitting would be necessary. This would include “adding a curved ramp at the end of the flight deck, improving the deck's heat resistance against jet burners, and reinforcing the ship's air traffic control capability."


The plan to transform the helicopter destroyers into mini aircraft carriers would almost certainly alarm neighbors, most notably China. In response to the earlier reports about refitting the Izumo-class destroyer, Beijing only offered mild condemnation in public, calling on Japan to stick to its pacifist constitution and follow a path of "peaceful development." Behind the scenes, however, China would almost certain object much more strenuously. Still, Beijing’s criticisms about Japan’s plan are undercut by China’s own plans to build a large aircraft carrier fleet.

South Korea is another country that took notice of the reports about Japan’s plan. In fact, shortly after Japan’s thinking became public reports emerged that Seoul was also considering refitting its helicopter destroyers to carry the F-35B.

Should Japan purchase F-35Bs, they will not be the first ones in the country. Japan was the host country for America’s first overseas deployment of the plane. Specifically, the U.S. Marine Corps Fighter Attack Squadron 121 was deployed to Iwakuni air base in Yamaguchi Prefecture in Japan. It reached full strength in November of last year when the last three of the sixteen F-35Bs in the squadron arrived. The first of the planes had been sent to Japan in January 2017. The United States has also deployed the F-35A—the conventional variant of the plane—in Japan. Tokyo itself also has F-35As and ultimately plans to acquire forty-two of them.

Zachary Keck (@ZacharyKeck) is a former managing editor of The National Interest.


So China is worried about Japan's plans to transform their helicopter destroyers into mini aircraft carriers......they should have thought about that when they decided to acquire their own aircraft carrier and then proceed to start building new ones.

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 Post subject: Re: The F-35
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 2:25 pm 
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Quote:
Of course, as the article also notes, the F-35B would be the perfect aircraft if Japan wanted to operate fixed-wing aircraft from its Izumo-class helicopter destroyers..


That was the first reaction I had to the Japanese wanting a V/STOL aircraft.

They obviously want them for use on short deck helo/assault ships.

Would expect them to start building a new short deck near-CV, with more carrying capacity than before, in the future. If they make the purchase.

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 Post subject: Re: The F-35
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 2:52 pm 
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NefariousKoel wrote:
Quote:
Of course, as the article also notes, the F-35B would be the perfect aircraft if Japan wanted to operate fixed-wing aircraft from its Izumo-class helicopter destroyers..


That was the first reaction I had to the Japanese wanting a V/STOL aircraft.

They obviously want them for use on short deck helo/assault ships.

Would expect them to start building a new short deck near-CV, with more carrying capacity than before, in the future. If they make the purchase.


We could build or license for them to build the America-class amphibious assault ship.
That would be a big step up for them.

Izuma class helicopter carrier stats:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Izumo-cla ... _destroyer

Quote:
General characteristics
Type: ASW carrier
Displacement:
19,500 tonnes empty[1]
27,000 tons full load[2]
Length: 248 m (814 ft)[1]
Beam: 38 m (125 ft)[1]
Draft: 7.5 m (25 ft)[1]
Depth: 33.5 m (110 ft)[1]
Installed power: 112,000 hp (84,000 kW)[1]
Propulsion:
COGAG, two shafts[1]
4 × GE/IHI LM2500IEC gas turbine
Speed: 30 kn (56 km/h)[1]
Complement: 970 including crew and troops[1]
Sensors and
processing systems:
ATECS (advanced technology command system)
OYQ-12 combat direction system
OPS-50 AESA radar
OPS-28 surface-search radar
OQQ-23 bow sonar
Electronic warfare
& decoys:
NOLQ-3D-1 EW suite
Mark 36 SRBOC
Anti-torpedo mobile decoy (MOD)
Floating acoustic jammer (FAJ)
Armament:
2 × Phalanx CIWS
2 × SeaRAM CIWS
Aircraft carried:
7 ASW helicopters and 2 SAR helicopters[1]
28 aircraft maximum



American class stats:

Quote:
General characteristics
Type: Amphibious assault ship
Displacement: 44,971 long tons (45,693 t)[4] full load
Length: 844 ft (257 m)
Beam: 106 ft (32 m)
Propulsion:
Two gas turbines, two shafts, with 70,000 bhp (52,000 kW) total,
Two 5,000 hp (3,700 kW) auxiliary propulsion engines.
Speed: 20 knots (37 km/h; 23 mph) plus
Complement:
65 officers, 994 enlisted
1,687 Marines
Sensors and
processing systems:
AN/SPQ-9B fire control radar, AN/SPS-49, AN/USG-2 Cooperative Engagement Capability (CEC), SSDS MK2[5]
AN/SPS-48G air search radar[6][7]
Electronic warfare
& decoys:
AN/SLQ-32B(V)2
two Mk53 Nulka decoy launchers[6]
Armament:
Two Rolling Airframe Missile launchers
two Evolved Sea Sparrow Missile launchers
two Phalanx CIWS
seven dual .50 caliber machine guns
Aircraft carried:
AV-8B Harrier II
F-35B Lightning II
MV-22B Osprey
CH-53E Super Stallion or
CH-53K King Stallion
UH-1Y Venom
AH-1Z Viper
MH-60S Knighthawk
Aviation facilities: Hangar deck



and

Quote:
The typical aircraft complement for the first two vessels is expected to be 12 MV-22B Osprey transports, six F-35B Lightning II STOVL multirole jet aircraft, four CH-53K heavy transport helicopters, seven AH-1Z/UH-1Y attack/utility helicopters, and two Navy MH-60S "Knighthawks" for air-sea rescue.[6] The exact make-up of the ship's aircraft complements will vary according to her mission. She can carry about 20 AV-8Bs or F-35Bs, and two MH-60Ses[6] to serve as a small aircraft carrier as demonstrated by Landing Helicopter Dock (LHD) operations in Operation Iraqi Freedom.



If the Japanese were worried about not crossing the line into "offensive" capability, they could build it to the specs of the first American class ship, which lacks the well deck amphibious capability that the subsequent America-class ships will contain.


That would still be smaller than China's Type 001A aircraft carrier https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_001A ... ft_carrier and tiny compared to their planned Type 002 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_002_aircraft_carrier and Type 003 carriers.

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 Post subject: Re: The F-35
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 3:44 pm 
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The price of them is nearing the 85 mil mark. A brand new F-16 out of the factory nowadays will run about 85 million.


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 Post subject: Re: The F-35
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 4:03 pm 
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Wow...I never thought you could get 20 F-35's on one of those things. Do that have a hanger deck?

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 Post subject: Re: The F-35
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 4:18 pm 
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jack t ripper wrote:
Wow...I never thought you could get 20 F-35's on one of those things. Do that have a hanger deck?



They do have a hangar deck.
USS America (LHA-6) was built without a well deck, so it’s aircraft hangar is larger. I guess Tripoli (LHA-7) is similar and then Subsequent America-class ships are being built with a well deck as well, meaning they will as a result have a smaller hangar deck than USS America does.

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 Post subject: Re: The F-35
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2018 5:35 am 
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Some bits about the Hustler's development compared to the F35.

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 Post subject: Re: The F-35
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2018 1:41 pm 
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So I see quite a few YTs about F-15, F-16, F-18 pilots who flew the F-35 and become "sold' that it is magnificent. Then also quite a few stories of simulated combats were 1 F-35 takes out a half-dozen or more of the older generation . . . I know the project has been very controversial (and F-22 before it also controversial), but what is the consensus now? Has it been accepted the F-35 really is an order of magnitude leap forward? Referring back to a post by Jwilk: is it possible that 100 F-35s could outlast 1000 planes of the previous generation (F-18, F-15, F-16, or Russkie/Chicom equivalent)?

You guys must know the answers, right?

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 Post subject: Re: The F-35
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2018 1:59 pm 
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She was built to deliver nukes. Frightening aircraft. Pretty though. Looks like a f111 prolly along the same design.

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 Post subject: Re: The F-35
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2018 7:12 pm 
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Anthropoid wrote:
So I see quite a few YTs about F-15, F-16, F-18 pilots who flew the F-35 and become "sold' that it is magnificent. Then also quite a few stories of simulated combats were 1 F-35 takes out a half-dozen or more of the older generation . . . I know the project has been very controversial (and F-22 before it also controversial), but what is the consensus now? Has it been accepted the F-35 really is an order of magnitude leap forward? Referring back to a post by Jwilk: is it possible that 100 F-35s could outlast 1000 planes of the previous generation (F-18, F-15, F-16, or Russkie/Chicom equivalent)?

You guys must know the answers, right?



I could be mistaken but I don't think that the F-35 has flown in any combat yet.

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