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 Post subject: Re: The F-35
PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2016 3:59 am 
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AVG. Rookie American pilots in inferior P-40s kick the shit out of veteran samurai and their superior airplanes.

I would post a pic of the most magnificent aircraft ever built here, but worms like pamak are not worthy to gaze upon it. 8-)

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 Post subject: Re: The F-35
PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2016 11:04 am 
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I'll do it. Pamak can't be harmed by exposure to the facts.

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 Post subject: Re: The F-35
PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2016 5:19 pm 
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Doggies words indicate he is more concerned about the aeroplane being harmed by having its image gazed upon (by the unworthy) ! :)

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 Post subject: Re: The F-35
PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2016 5:20 pm 
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when i was a 10 year-old kid 'Flying Tigers' was the first war movie i can remember watching on TV in 1969.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Tigers_(film)
I still remember John Wayne wasting the Jap Zero with the ' flap trick' ....whatever the hell that was?....i believe with a Zero on his tail, reducing speed/altitude dramatically with sudden flaps out, then behind the gook and burst of 50 caliber :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: The F-35
PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2016 6:48 pm 
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Hollywood for ya. The P-40 didn't need a trick. It could outrun a Zero in level flight at any altitude. Interestingly, one of the things you notice reading Lundstom is that Japanese would make zoom passes on the slower F4F-wildcat and pull up in front of the F4F too close, with the result that the F4F drivers would flame the Zeke. US drivers were vastly better at deflection shooting and Zero drivers, who weren't all that expert at it, figured that their maneuver was a safe one. It wasn't.

Another reason why combat experience overrated. Things that worked against Foe A may not work well against Foe B.

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 Post subject: Re: The F-35
PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2016 3:08 am 
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Note the difference in variants: This is the later P-40K.

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 Post subject: Re: The F-35
PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2016 3:24 am 
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doggie wrote:
AVG. Rookie American pilots in inferior P-40s kick the shit out of veteran samurai and their superior airplanes.

I would post a pic of the most magnificent aircraft ever built here, but worms like pamak are not worthy to gaze upon it. 8-)



Not in Philippines. They lost something like 90 P40s there without much resistance

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 Post subject: Re: The F-35
PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2016 10:37 am 
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Most were destroyed on the ground, or written off due to lack of supplies. At least two were destroyed when the Japanese attack transport they strafed exploded. It was full of munitions.

As I noted before, well thought out campaigns, prepositioned forces and logistical support, interior lines, and the isolation of exposed allied units at the end of a fragile logistical rope, allowed the Japanese to concentrate massive numerical superiority at the point of attack. The Japanese were masters of the set piece battle. Credit where due.

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 Post subject: Re: The F-35
PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2016 11:39 am 
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mdiehl wrote:
Most were destroyed on the ground, or written off due to lack of supplies. At least two were destroyed when the Japanese attack transport they strafed exploded. It was full of munitions.

As I noted before, well thought out campaigns, prepositioned forces and logistical support, interior lines, and the isolation of exposed allied units at the end of a fragile logistical rope, allowed the Japanese to concentrate massive numerical superiority at the point of attack. The Japanese were masters of the set piece battle. Credit where due.



Yes, the IJN had success with the "set piece battle", but this philosophy may also have partially contributed to their demise.

They had an obsession with the Kantai Kessen (or Decisive Battle Doctrine):
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kantai_Kessen

The conservative IJN faction still clung to this Decisive Battle Doctrine based on battleships even after the beginning of WW 2. And even when the realization that carriers would be the primary naval weapon finally sunk in, they simply substituted carriers for battleships and still clung to the doctrine itself.

As it turned out, the 'decisive battle' turned out to be the Battle of Midway, but with the outcome different than they had anticipated. :D

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 Post subject: Re: The F-35
PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2016 12:08 pm 
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The decisive battle doctrine (and the strategic plan that was supposed to bring that about) were part and parcel of Japanese mastery of set piece battles that came about from pre-war plans. Having established the gains that they planned from the outset, the second phase was supposed to be consolidation of those gains, with an eye towards forcing attrition of American forces until, damaged and whittled down, they could be destroyed by major IJN assets held in reserve.

The problem for the Japanese was that they assumed far too much in superiority on a ship for ship, man for man basis. It was an ideological dogma that foolishly became part of their operational assumptions. They never the edge on the USN that they imagined they had. Likewise with ground combat units.

They were also particularly talentless at innovating on the battlefield in exegesis. If events did not transpire in the order that they planned -- both in terms of their own execution of operational plans, and in the anticipated enemy responses -- they were more or less bound to lose a fight. Some of that was also lousy doctrine on their part.

Take Coral Sea, for example. Shokaku emerged badly damaged but with most of its attached air units intact. Zuikaku emerged intact but most of it's air crew were dead. In Japanese doctrine, naval aviation units were an integral component of a specific ship... not quite but almost thought of as parts of a particular ship similar to a gun turret or a rudder. Also, Japanese 1st line CVs operated in pairs. The idea of sending one, by itself, on a series of fast raids as the USN did with Yorktown and Enterprise in the early war NEVER occurred to the Japanese as something that they should do or that the USN WOULD do.

So after Coral Sea you have at least one 1st line CV ready to go but no air units for it, and one 1st line CV badly damaged with an intact air unit. It never occurred to the Japanese to transfer Shokaku's air units to Zuikaku and consolidate Zui's survivors with Sho's. That is because the Japanese would never have imagined sending out Zuikaku without pairing it with another 1st line CV, but no others were available to pair off.

Contrast that with the USN. Air units were swapped between ships and land bases routinely. If the USN had been operating Zuikaku, it would have had a full air complement within 72 hours of returning to port after Coral Sea and would have been ready to fight in a week.

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