maddogdrivethru.net

Open all night
It is currently Tue Dec 18, 2018 10:35 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 134 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 14  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: The F-35
PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2016 8:51 am 
Offline
buck private
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 20, 2008 8:01 am
Posts: 16339
Reputation points: 13228
I believe there was an earlier F-35 thread, but can't find it. If it's found please merge:
Quote:
The F-35

Posted by Michael Hiteshew on April 17th, 2016 (All posts by Michael Hiteshew)

The F-35B reached initial operational capability (IOC) with US Marine Corps in July of 2015. There are three models of this aircraft, the conventional takeoff and landing (CTOL) F-35A which will reach IOC with the USAF this year, the short takeoff and vertical landing (STOVL) F-35B, and the folding wing, heavy airframe, carrier version F-35C, which is due to reach IOC with the USN in 2018. Evolved from the JSF competition prototype, this aircraft is due to replace the F-15, F-16, F-18, AV-8B, and for some CAS missions the A-10, although there are rumors the USAF is considering opening a competition to replace the A-10 with a new aircraft.

Currently the aircraft is nearing the end of the test and evaluation phase and is in low-rate initial production. Lockheed is preparing to ramp up to full rate production in the near future at its massive Fort-Worth aircraft plant. To say this aircraft is controversial is an understatement and it has been the target of enormous criticism, speculation and western leftist and Russian disinformation campaigns. Probably the most egregious lie told is that $1.5 trillion has been spent on aircraft development thus far. In reality, around $1 trillion is the estimated total cost of ownership for the entire US buy of 2500+ aircraft for 50 years. That includes purchasing all the aircraft, bases, schools, pilot training, tech training, maintenance and spare parts. Politics and disinformation warfare being what it is though, the number increases whenever convenient just to increase its scariness and to make it seem as astounding as possible. It turns out, however and unsurprisingly, that if those numbers are run for any fighter aircraft you get similar or greater costs over that timeframe.

Read the rest of this entry »
http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/52381.html#more-52381
Comments are interesting!

_________________
“Political Language… is Designed to Make Lies Sound Truthful… and to Give an Appearance of Solidity to Pure Wind.” — George Orwell


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: The F-35
PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2016 11:05 am 
Offline
Sergeant Major

Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2008 9:50 pm
Posts: 10532
Location: Eskridge, KS
Reputation points: 14677
I wonder if there is a lesson in here that the "do {almost} everything" aircraft might not be the best way ...

_________________
Go trumpf Go !!!
(will the resident return to being the President?)
(will the rainbow shack return to being the White House?)


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: The F-35
PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2016 11:42 am 
Offline
Sergeant Major

Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2008 12:33 pm
Posts: 20954
Location: LV-426
Reputation points: 15927
"Only" $400M per plane for a device whose principal mission will be to bomb mud huts. :roll:

_________________
"Fuck the king." - Sandor Clegane

"And the story was whatever was the song what it was." - Dire Straits


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The F-35
PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2016 1:10 pm 
Offline
Sergeant Major

Joined: Fri Dec 05, 2008 3:19 pm
Posts: 27938
Reputation points: 20000
The problem with expensive airplanes is the cost is high so the DOD orders fewer...so the program costs are amoritized over fewer planes...but $400M per airframe is ridiculous.

The B2 is far more but it can fly from Missouri to anywhere in the world and carry a much bigger payload.

_________________
I haven't figured out how to the block thingy works but if anyone alters my posts I will become really, really angry and throw monkey poop out of my cage.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: The F-35
PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2016 2:00 pm 
Offline
Sergeant Major

Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2008 9:50 pm
Posts: 10532
Location: Eskridge, KS
Reputation points: 14677
The F-15 is stated to be $30m cost per plane. So if one side had 100 F35 and the other side had 1,333 F-15s and most else was equal ... which side would win?

==

So how to reduce development costs? Simplify the requirements! Don't go for the "do everything" plane!!!

_________________
Go trumpf Go !!!
(will the resident return to being the President?)
(will the rainbow shack return to being the White House?)


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: The F-35
PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2016 2:09 pm 
Offline
Sergeant Major

Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2008 12:33 pm
Posts: 20954
Location: LV-426
Reputation points: 15927
If you made them SRVs you could buy at least 20 LGM 30 block IIIs with warheads (including 30 years of operationally ready staffing and maintenance costs) for the cost of ONE F-35.

_________________
"Fuck the king." - Sandor Clegane

"And the story was whatever was the song what it was." - Dire Straits


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The F-35
PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2016 2:11 pm 
Offline
Corporal
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2008 4:47 pm
Posts: 609
Location: Neenah
Reputation points: 1115
Guys, the 35 will be down to $85 a pop within a few years. Coincidentally the same as a new F-16.

No F-15 is $30m each these days.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: The F-35
PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2016 2:17 pm 
Offline
Sergeant Major

Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 4:43 pm
Posts: 16164
Reputation points: 720
This is a common engineering problem. Is it better to have one design with variations, or different designs that use the a common platform of standard components?

I'd lean to the latter alternative. F-22 and A-10 using the same technical solutions as much as practical. No multipurpose bastards like F-35.

But we are not living in a perfect world. :roll:

_________________
The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt

Mit der Dummheit kämpfen selbst Götter vergebens.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: The F-35
PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2016 5:37 pm 
Offline
buck private
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 20, 2008 8:01 am
Posts: 16339
Reputation points: 13228
jwilkerson wrote:
The F-15 is stated to be $30m cost per plane. So if one side had 100 F35 and the other side had 1,333 F-15s and most else was equal ... which side would win?

==

So how to reduce development costs? Simplify the requirements! Don't go for the "do everything" plane!!!
Who won the battle of Rorke's drift, who won Isandlwana? Both battles effectively matched the same type armies with different results. Tactics matter, like, don't handicap your troops like the Brits did at Isandlwana.

How many air to air missiles is the F-35 carrying?

If it's a head to head engagement and the F-35 is carrying 20 air to air missiles plus has 100% accuracy the F-35 wins, if it carries 10 ... bummer.

Strategy/Tactics matter.

_________________
“Political Language… is Designed to Make Lies Sound Truthful… and to Give an Appearance of Solidity to Pure Wind.” — George Orwell


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: The F-35
PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2016 9:37 am 
Offline
His Most Gracious Majesty, Commie of the Year
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 28, 2009 12:44 pm
Posts: 7880
Reputation points: 17300
F-35 is the stuff that US will be giving (selling for profit) to it's allies.

Meanwhile they keep the F-22, the real star, to themselves.

That doesn't mean that F-35 isn't great.

For instance if you want to optimize stealth you can load just the concealable bays with missiles.

By the time you have suppressed aerial defenses you can start ramming in more stuff and worry less about stealth.

And indeed it's a stealth plane that can do a lot of things. How many countries have planes like that? I'm asking you. Not a whole lot.

Russians for instance have dropped off of the sled long time ago. Their PAK FA is fifth generation in name only. There's nothing stealthy about that plane. It's basically their basic old design with minor tweaks to the front and a new name but mostly it's the same old shit in a new wrapper, except even the wrapper is mostly the same old one.

But hey, at least they can laugh at Americans because Americans "lost" so much money developing things they can't even dream about.
Just like people in Nairobi can laugh at how much Americans "lose" money with their space program.

Those people laughing, it's not as if they can do anything else. Neighbor has a new sports car, you can laugh at how ridiculous amounts of fuel it uses in comparison to your VW Golf and how much money he's losing just on the insurance costs.
That doesn't mean that you actually get to have that money the other guy spends.

The other guy is spending money he has.

USA doesn't even notice the cost of F-35 anywhere. It's a tiny drop in a vast sea. For instance if US didn't get involved in Iraq they could have built a golden bridge to Mars but it's their business how they use their money and they figured out that Mars is even less hospitable than Iraq so they wanted to go there instead. And with the money saved from not building a golden bridge they got a lot of boom and everyone knows that Americans love their fireworks. Not that the plan didn't work out for them, the Muslims are now pretty involved in killing each other instead of hijacking planes.

But in any case, US military needs to prepare for actual real contenders like China and .. Russia, not that Russia is that serious of a rival anymore but still. US needs to improve their technology and build newer better things that will render obsolete everything their opposition has.

_________________
Screw you nero


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 134 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 14  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 20 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group