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 Post subject: Re: Zoombie Redoubts
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 9:47 pm 
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Quote:
... Is the emitter on that PVS very powerful ? We use a flashlight size beam that will show eyes and faint shapes in an ATN scope even against a black backdrop like that at about 150 yds ...


Well you answered one of the questions I was going to ask you ... as you said you've used an "IR-Light" for yotes ... which would not be visible except with NV (Night Vision ... a.k.a. image intensifier ... a.k.a. I2 ... a.k.a. EYE-SQUARED) ... So you are using an ATN i2 scope with an ir-illuminator ... ok.

In general, I do not use illuminators. Not using illuminators increases stealth. Some IR-illuminators are low enough frequency that some believe critters can see them ... and of course, some primates carry devices that can see ir-illuminators ... in general the people I've hunted with at night do not take kindly to people turning on illuminators ...

So yes, the PVS-14s have small illuminators, but I never use them on purpose.

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 Post subject: Re: Zoombie Redoubts
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 10:07 pm 
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If they start shooting back I'll stop being a cheapskate and get a thermal... :) In the short term I'll just hand the flashlight to somebody else when the shooting starts.....

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 Post subject: Re: Zoombie Redoubts
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 10:36 pm 
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Dayam! That is a seriously attractive woman. Even with all the dirt makeup.

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 Post subject: Re: Zoombie Redoubts
PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 2:37 am 
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Anthropoid wrote:
Kameolontti wrote:
My most dangerous weapon is the pommel of my dull practice sword.

. . . SNIP . . . my longsword it would be a pretty decent zombie killing tool because it is just that even when it's blunt. You can literally get thousands of strong hits with it with next to no wear and I mean binding cuts against another guy's cut so that sparks come off. . . .


Other than play fighting with trash can lids and sticks as a kid, I have no experience with such things.

However, I note that the Romans used gladii, a long thick "knife" and that they continued to do so even through centuries of conflict against myriad opponents.

I don't think the gladii can be blamed for the Fall of the Roman Empire, and had its administration and social order not be completely corrupted and rotten, I think the Romans might well have been able to prevail or even expand despite their short little swords.

Based on experience using machetes, I find that a blade slightly shorter, versus slightly longer is preferable . . .

I find my 18" (~45cm) Scott's titanium machete to be about right . . . maybe another 3cm would've been good . . .

Image

I wish they would have made the tip slightly heavier too but overall, a decent Zoombie Apoc weapon.



What was *everyone* using during antiquity and through it until something like 18th century?

Phalanx! Pike squares.

Romans had short swords - but not *just* short swords, they carried two pila, gladius, tower shield and a dagger. It's the combination of their arms that made them effective. The pila were thrown at the shields of opposing pike square, breaking their shield wall as the weight of their shields would increase due to bunch of pila being stuck to them. If they didn't have shields then the tightly packed pikemen would simply be cut down, either way they're creating gaps and chinks in the enemy formation. Then they use their heavy shields to get up close and personal and as the spears become unwieldy in close quarters the tightly packed legionaries are protecting each other and still have just enough room to use their gladii effectively.

They had their own thing and it worked well for them. There have been later attempts to recreate them, if I remember correctly some Dutch royal guy tried something like it around 15th or 16th century or so, a unit of armored infantry with shields and swords but I think they didn't work too well (iirc) and were reserved for bodyguard duties. Could be wrong though! Then again by that era in Europe cavalry charges were quite different than the ones of antiquity that lacked proper lances, stirrups and so on.

As far as Roman military is concerned they could have managed their empire for quite some time. Even through their height they came across types of enemies that were tricky to deal with and they simply solved that by amassing sufficient number of troops and demonstrating that their empire was a dynamic actor and could rise to challenges.


If I was fighting zombies I'd like the extended range of my longsword over any short sword style solution. I mean, I have a meter long blade. That's 39" of blade excluding the guard, handle, pommel etc.

Though of course I am biased towards swords. The real killer would be a polearm such as a pollaxe:

Image

Even a mere staff this long has the hitting tip traveling at tremendous speed and able to literally smash through skulls. Now we're adding a whole bunch of sharp steel at the tip and you can guess what that amounts to? A killer that was effective even against full plate, cavalry, infantry, anything really except artillery and muskets. And ships. It was pretty useless against a ship of the line.

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 Post subject: Re: Zoombie Redoubts
PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 7:42 am 
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Regarding seeing critters at night with MKIEB or Day scopes or I2 optics with no illuminator .. I think the simplest way to say it is - is the critter "IN" the shadows. If the critter is "IN" the shadows ... and there is insufficient light bouncing off the critters in those shadows, then they will not be seen ... in my experience. And the distance does't matter much (if you can see it in day). But in the open ... or not in shadows ... or with sufficient light bouncing off the critters they can be seen.

In the winter with moon ... the woods are very bright and you can see critters like deer in the woods, especially if they are moving with i2 with no illuminator.

==
But I do think good scopes can see things MKIEB cannot and will run some experiments on that with thru lens pics.

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 Post subject: Re: Zoombie Redoubts
PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 8:25 am 
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What is lowest cost, usable thermal for hunting?

It might be this

Image

The ATN Thor HD, 19mm, 1.25x 320(30) list price $2k ...

I had one of these briefly back in November ... it must have still been in "beta" then ...
The issues I remember:
1 - black hot did not work at all, screen was completely white, no image.
2 - while hot was fuzzy inside 100yds, very fuzzy beyond 100yds
3 - adjusting both contrast and brightness through full value ranges did not help with the image
4 - Zeroing click value was 2 inches at 25 yds ... that 8 MOA ... 2 MOA might work, but 8 MOA is too much. This means you may need to hold varying amounts at different distances.

I wound up returning the unit. ATN has released several software updates since I had the unit and may have improved issue 1 and 2. I hope so. A hunting usable thermal at under $2k would be a market buster. But this device was not there when I had it.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/277126/atn-thor-hd-thermal-rifle-scope-125-5x-19mm-384x288-with-hd-video-recording-wi-fi-gps-smooth-zoom-smartphone-control-via-ios-or-android-app-matte

==
Beyond that, I tried Torrey Pines Lepton cored thermal peep sights. These work fine inside buildings ... out in the yard ... I could see wife at 100yds in the open ... but against background of vegetation, she washed out ... yes even with thermal, though for completely different reason ... due to emissivity being close for both the vegetation and her. This would not always be the case but it would often be the case. I was able to shoot some rats with these mounted on a shotgun, but had to find them first with a real thermal. They run about $500 to $600 ... bottom line ... not usable for hunting.

Image

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/969457/torrey-pines-logic-t12-n-mini-thermal-imager-1x-picatinny-mount-matte
==

These have just come out and are still being tested by folks that frequent the forums I visit ... but I think these work ... and might be the first "under $2k hunting usable thermal scopes ...

Image

They do not have a lot of the bells and whistles (like video) that others have ... but they have to chop something to get the price down ...

http://www.opticsplanet.com/pulsar-pl76483q-core-rxq30v-therml-scp.html

==

So the advantage of thermal, is that all this discussion about light and shadow is meaningless ... thermal does not see visible light or shadow ... and does not see ir-illuminators either ... so none of that matters ...

Hence, as the price of thermal devices continues to drop, more and more night hunters are switching to thermal.

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 Post subject: Re: Zoombie Redoubts
PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 9:14 am 
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I've used a Pulsar Quantum I think it's called... I'm sure it's another marginal performer.. It was adequate if you were set up and steady on a certain area and waiting for something to come into view, but target scanning and movement in general was very disorienting... I'm not too proud to admit that in the dark sometimes it's very difficult just to figure out where the gun is pointing... sold that...

Actually the most popular way to hunt at night around here is with a simple red spotlight. Which is where I've tried several day scopes, hoping to find one that really made a difference. The other factor at night is magnification. Have you ever been able to even use a scope that's above 4x ?

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 Post subject: Re: Zoombie Redoubts
PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 9:31 am 
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Quote:
Though of course I am biased towards swords. The real killer would be a polearm such as a pollaxe:


I'd like to try making a bardiche some day...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bardiche

The ability to grip it short or long was quite innovative..

I've made mostly swords and shorter blades...

Image

Image

Image

Image

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 Post subject: Re: Zoombie Redoubts
PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 10:02 am 
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The Pulsar quantum, is a handheld thermal spotter. You used to be able to get the HD19A for $1800 maybe even as low as $1500 ... but that model is not generally available any more. So the next model up, costs the same as the new rxq30 which is a rifle scope (though it can be used as a handheld spotter as well).

One simple way to hunt is to use a handheld spotter to find the critters and control your stalk to your FP, then let go of it (it should be on a lanyard around your neck) and press the "fire" button on your bright white light mounted on your rifle and blast away. That should take under 1s.

Though now that rifle mounted thermal costs the same as handheld thermal spotter, the need to do the above "red neck" work around is dissipated.

==
I've experimented quite a bit with Red, Green, Blue and white lights at night ... from 3 lumen up to 2000 lumen ...

Red is great for very short distances like map reading. We had red filters for our flashlights in the Army I was in for this purpose.

Blue is next level up in terms of reducing stealth and in terms of increasing distance of visibility for a given luminosity of light. I was unable to drive the buggy with a 30 lumen red light on front ... but I could with a 30 lumen blue light on front. Even on a very dark night. That was best use I got out of blue. People use them for blood tracking, but I've been able to do that with white light.

Green is next level up in terms of reducing stealth and increasing distance. I've found the 3 lumen green light to be AMAZING in the woods at night even on the darkest nights ... movement is at day light speeds in the woods ... which is not saying much ... our woods are thick with lots of undergrowth and a zillion downed trees and branches ... and plenty of locust trees and other sticker trees. Bumping into one of these day or night could make a mess of you. Those torns can be 2-4 inches long and hard as nails and sharp as a needle ...

Image

So just thrashing through the woods blind is not a good idea.

==
White light of course helps you see things close in ... depending on terrain and the power of the light ... but you give up stealth.

==
I carry one 3 lumen RGBW light in my pocket at all times when outside and have one each of same on both my helmets. When I go hunting with a team I carry one 30L RGBW and one 300L White light for emergencies.

I believe viz lights have their place, but I do not use them for hunting directly ... only as aids for specific purposes.

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 Post subject: Re: Zoombie Redoubts
PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 10:15 am 
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First Sergeant

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Quote:
Have you ever been able to even use a scope that's above 4x ?


For general night hunting, I think 4x is a lot of magnification.

For coop defense, I like 1x and out to about 150yds is as far as I need to go for that and 1x is perfect. I could probably tolerate 1.25x or 1.5x but I'd need to recalibrate my brain for certain holds.

For hogs in more open terrain, like around Wichita Falls, 3x is probably perfect and 4x is tolerable ... but inside 100yds I find myself "swinging the rifle around" trying to find the critters I've already seen. When you are facing a field of multiple sounders 2x to 3x is what you want so you have enough fov to find the next target quickly.

For yotes or bobcats ... if you see them on the approach at say 100yds, and you are prepared, you might be able to crank up your digital magnification by 2x ... so you scanned for them at say 2x then fire your shot at 4x ... that works well, especially if there is only one target visible. Bumping up the magnification right before the shot can improve shot placement. It takes a lot of practice for me to remember to do this :D Once I have a yote in my sights I am driven by watching it move and determining the "shoot me now" moment (the moment it has decided to leave but has paused just before doing so ... this is the closest approach and it is not moving for an instant and we call this the "shoot me now" moment).

If you have 2 people, one might have more magnification than the other and that works well. The one with less magnification is the observer and is scanning about more ... the one with more magnification might do the targetID and can do scanning farther out. So one guy at 2x and one at 4x can be useful. But yes for general hunting I think 4x is the limit for shooting. Now for scanning, if your terrain allows you to see a mile or more, as around Wichita Falls in some places ... then hecque 8x, 12x, 16x can add value ... but you would rarely if ever be shooting at those distances.

Could I hit a deer at 800yds with thermal at night on 8x? I think so, but I doubt it would be necessary. The stealth advantages we have with all this gear, means we should be able to get closer.

I've hit critters out to 300yds at night and that is about the limit for general night hunting in my book and 4x works for that. Given time, punching 2x on the digital can aid in shot placement ... but if facing multiple targets only one team member should do that.

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