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 Post subject: Re: Hebe Lives Matter
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 4:59 pm 
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jwilkerson wrote:
Had Sharon lived, the Gaza pullout would have been coupled with the West Bank pull out and the new hard border plans ... and the whole thing would have resulted in Israel declaring they were "done" resolving all the territorial issues and the two state solution would be in place.
It would have been a unilateral action, but it would have been done.
He died before he could finish the plan.

Nah, the plan was, and still is Erez Israel.

Sharon started the settlement program on the West Bank 1978 when Likud obtained power. Especially the hilltop, strategic settlements were important to the general's mind.

Too bad they can not take the pals as "servants" as during the biblical times. :roll:

Shalom.

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 Post subject: Re: Hebe Lives Matter
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 7:02 pm 
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nero wrote:
jwilkerson wrote:
Had Sharon lived, the Gaza pullout would have been coupled with the West Bank pull out and the new hard border plans ... and the whole thing would have resulted in Israel declaring they were "done" resolving all the territorial issues and the two state solution would be in place.
It would have been a unilateral action, but it would have been done.
He died before he could finish the plan.

Nah, the plan was, and still is Erez Israel.

Sharon started the settlement program on the West Bank 1978 when Likud obtained power. Especially the hilltop, strategic settlements were important to the general's mind.

Too bad they can not take the pals as "servants" as during the biblical times. :roll:

Shalom.


"Palestinians" living within Israel average a far larger standard of living than that of their neighbors outside Israel.

I wonder why? Do you? I doubt it's because the Israeli Jews have pressed their Islamic countrymen into slavery. :ugeek:

Arabs make up over 20% of the Israeli population. You still think they've all been put into slavery by their Jewish masters, Nero? :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Hebe Lives Matter
PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 5:34 am 
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nero has been reading YLE where the Israel correspondent is a palestinian agitator.

So he thinks Hamas runs a free democracy and Isreal is this evil tyranny with no Muslims in their parliament.

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 Post subject: Re: Hebe Lives Matter
PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 6:11 am 
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Quote:
Domestic interests of Hamas are behind huge death toll in Gaza
Group's inability to reconcile with Fatah, Palestinian leaders has created humanitarian crisis and sense of desperation on Strip
By Shaiel Ben-Ephraim May 17, 2018 1:13 PM (UTC+8)

http://www.atimes.com/article/domestic- ... l-in-gaza/

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 Post subject: Re: Hebe Lives Matter
PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 9:10 am 
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Evidence that Sharon planned a number of unilateral actions to separate the territory of Israel from the "palestinians" and thus create a defacto palestinian state ... now this is was in the 2004-2005 ( and would've extended longer before completion ) ... but he did take the first step with Gaza. The second and third steps would've involved pulling out of the West bank and "hardening" the border with the "fence" and he did start building the fence, so he started that part also.

Quote:
Israel should withdraw from the West Bank, even without a Palestinian partner
A month before prime minister Sharon suffered a stroke, in January 2006, he was on the phone with Eitan. Four months after Israel’s unilateral disengagement from the Gaza Strip, the two discussed a preliminary plan to leave the West Bank as well, while maintaining the maximum number of Israeli settlements under Israeli control.

“Sharon knew that we must disengage from the Palestinians in the West Bank too; that we can’t continue occupying a foreign people,” Eitan told The Times of Israel.

Sharon dubbed his plan “the mosaic separation,” because it left most Israeli settlements intact, allowing isolated Palestinian villages access to large urban centers through an intricate system of underpasses and tunnels.

“Arik [Sharon] said: Let’s divide Judea and Samaria and take roughly one-third for ourselves, leaving two-thirds for the Arabs,” Eitan said. “Under this plan, the Jordan Valley and the Judean Desert would remain ours.”

With the Palestinian body politic divided today between Gaza and the West Bank — while internal rifts within the PLO prevent “even the signing of an interim agreement” — Eitan said he would advise Netanyahu to implement the Sharon plan immediately.

“We must disconnect from them [the Palestinians] as much as possible,” Eitan said, adding that he would even favor a plan attributed to former foreign minister Avigdor Liberman of handing over the area known as “the Triangle” in northwest Israel — with its 300,000 Arab citizens — to the future Palestinian state.


Once the Pals had a defacto state, Israel would've treated them like a state and any attacks, would've been responded to by a state versus a state. The Pals would have got their 2 state solution, probably over their objection, but it would've happen. I still think Israel should do this.

==
http://www.timesofisrael.com/sharon-was-about-to-leave-two-thirds-of-the-west-bank/

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 Post subject: Re: Hebe Lives Matter
PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 12:28 pm 
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Well, the "two state" thing is pretty much de facto the case now isn't it? I don't see how the actual reality on the ground is substantially different from a "two-state" solution?

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 Post subject: Re: Hebe Lives Matter
PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 12:59 pm 
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Yes, but the "border" is rather fuzzy. Basically, to finalize the process, Israel needs to

01 - close settlements outside the areas they will keep and withdraw the settlers
02 - extend the fence around the areas they will keep
03 - declare they are annexing the areas they will keep
04 - declare they are "giving" all the other 1967 "occupied" areas to the "palestinian state"

And sit back and smile ... the deed will be done.
And the Pals will have their "state" whether they want it or not.

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 Post subject: Re: Hebe Lives Matter
PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 3:34 pm 
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jwilkerson wrote:
Yes, but the "border" is rather fuzzy. Basically, to finalize the process, Israel needs to

01 - close settlements outside the areas they will keep and withdraw the settlers
02 - extend the fence around the areas they will keep
03 - declare they are annexing the areas they will keep
04 - declare they are "giving" all the other 1967 "occupied" areas to the "palestinian state"

And sit back and smile ... the deed will be done.
And the Pals will have their "state" whether they want it or not.


Ah, gotcha.

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 Post subject: Re: Hebe Lives Matter
PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 5:07 pm 
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One can presume that the "fence" mostly represents the dividing line between what Israel will keep and what it will not.

Israel has discussed giving some territory back that is currently in Israel, though mostly populated by "arabs". And certainly, per the map, the vast amount of West Bank territory would go to the rags. If they don't want it, they can abandon it, I'm sure someone from somewhere will move in :)

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 Post subject: Re: Hebe Lives Matter
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 3:36 am 
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Quote:
Tablet
Tablet
Middle East
13 Inconvenient Truths About What Has Been Happening in Gaza

The reality is much messier than the partisan echo chambers would have you believe
By Yair Rosenberg

http://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-news-an ... -207043669

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