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 Post subject: Re: North Korea Is Best Korea
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:35 pm 
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Gump wrote:
That's some pretty impressive 20th century thinking gents....


Perhaps the Phillippines should use a gladius to defend themselves against the Chinese?

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 Post subject: Re: North Korea Is Best Korea
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:36 pm 
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Yes, land based iCBMs are still necessary. You can't necessarily prevent someone from getting a superior ASW tech and if they did and could knock out our SSBN fleet then we'd be scrod without an ground based force. And the ground based force costs a tiny fraction to build and maintain than the SSBN force.

I do not know what the bomber force is supposed to do in the event of defcon 1. Loiter until the ICBMs have done their job and then, when the Chinese or Russian air defenses have been sufficiently vaporized, do follow up recon strike or strike missions?

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 Post subject: Re: North Korea Is Best Korea
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:37 pm 
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chijohnaok wrote:
Perhaps the Phillippines should use a gladius to defend themselves against the Chinese?


Haw! :lol: :lol:

You've hit the ceiling on + so I can't add to the pile.

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 Post subject: Re: North Korea Is Best Korea
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:46 pm 
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Anthropoid wrote:
Are ICBMs and air-launched nukes even necessary these days? SLBMs are pretty much enough as a deterrent aren't they?

I know there is that whole "triad" model from the 1970s, but my recollection of the total SLBM counts for U.S. are that they are substantial, and probably sufficient to act as a deterrent. Better than either air or land based from the standpoint that they cannot be preemptively interdicted, and are quite likely to be viable targets in any followup interdiction too. Any airbase that can run nuclear capable aircraft or non-mobile ICBM silos are likely to be the first on any nuclear aggressor's list, whether that be first strike or retaliatory. SLBMs are much harder for them to even know about fully much less target.


I think cutting two legs out of the nuclear triad could be dangerous.

Imagine if the Chinese could figure out a way to neutralize those submarines?
And "neutralizing" them doesn't have to mean sinking them.
Suppose the Chinese could figure out a way to jam communications between the nuclear launch HQ (wherever that might be) and the (boomer) submarines.
The US leadership could be unable to get the launch order to the US nuclear subs.

Having a triad (multiple sources from which to launch a nuclear strike) reduces the possibility of such a jamming occurrence.

And regarding an interdiction of air or land based ballistic missiles, remember that a launch by someone against those sites does not result in an instantaneous impact on them. A launch would still involve a certain amount of time (10 minutes, 20 minutes) from the time the missiles in China (or Russia) are launched to the time that they would reach their destination. That still gives leadership sufficient time to order a counter strike.

(Also, I presume that the communication method used to notify US boomer subs would NOT be the same as for notifying ground based missiles or air launched missiles. Those could/would (at least for ground based missiles) involve some sort of landline communications.)

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 Post subject: Re: North Korea Is Best Korea
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:54 pm 
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chijohnaok wrote:
Gump wrote:
That's some pretty impressive 20th century thinking gents....


Perhaps the Phillippines should use a gladius to defend themselves against the Chinese?


I always know when my humor has been fully appreciated...

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 Post subject: Re: North Korea Is Best Korea
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:00 am 
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There are essentially two ways of contacting a boomer at sea:

1) VLF (very low frequency) electromagnetic communications to shallow-submerged subs. The wavelengths are so long it is time consuming to send a message so what they do is send a very brief coded message telling the sub to send up an aerial briefly to receive new orders

2) The subs pops up an aerial while otherwise submerged to receive flash radio messages. This is all passive, of course, so they don't emit any EM radiation to do this. There is a risk the sub's aerial may be detected by nearby enemy radar.

Since they have very sensitive passive sonar there may also be secret ways to send messages by very powerful underwater speakers. A sub leaving port after a war has started would probably have default attack orders.

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