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 Post subject: Re: Welcome to Sweden
PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 1:57 pm 
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Again, there are such libel laws in the United States.
The burden of proof for winning such a case in the US is high:

Quote:
The 1964 case New York Times Co. v. Sullivan dramatically altered the nature of libel law in the United States by elevating the fault element for public officials to actual malice—that is, public figures could win a libel suit only if they could demonstrate the publisher's "knowledge that the information was false" or that the information was published "with reckless disregard of whether it was false or not".[126]

Later the Supreme Court held that statements that are so ridiculous to be clearly not true are protected from libel claims,[127] as are statements of opinion relating to matters of public concern that do not contain a provably false factual connotation.[128] Subsequent state and federal cases have addressed defamation law and the Internet.[129]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defamation#United_States

How could YOU sue me for defamation and slander?
YOU probably could not as you would have no standing.
You do not live in the United States; you would therefore have no ability to sue me.

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 Post subject: Re: Welcome to Sweden
PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 2:23 pm 
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chijohnaok wrote:
However, is the solution to that to strip them of their right to free speech?


Of course not. However, that is they way Putin's Russia works (well, you actually get killed if you are too troublesome) - a country the anti-migration crowd in Sweden favours.

Banning users from commenting on articles solves nothing, but I'm sceptical about the importance of facts in swaying people's opinions. Think facts will make the guys of Kekistan belive there were various types of concentration/death camps in Nazi German controlled areas? ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Welcome to Sweden
PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 2:28 pm 
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wulfir wrote:
chijohnaok wrote:
However, is the solution to that to strip them of their right to free speech?


Of course not. However, that is they way Putin's Russia works (well, you actually get killed if you are too troublesome) - a country the anti-migration crowd in Sweden favours.

Banning users from commenting on articles solves nothing, but I'm sceptical about the importance of facts in swaying people's opinions. Think facts will make the guys of Kekistan belive there were various types of concentration/death camps in Nazi German controlled areas? ;)


Russia and Islamic world have that in common. Say a wrong word and you get killed. At Russia you may or may not become an example. In Islamic world it tends to be something gruesome and bloody.

Yet Swedes are in some perverse love affair with Islam, except those that aren't are with Russia? Either way is horrible.

How about having a real army of real men to keep Russians out while also saying "no thanks" to Islam? But that's not even on the table in Sweden.

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 Post subject: Re: Welcome to Sweden
PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 3:15 pm 
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wulfir wrote:
chijohnaok wrote:
However, is the solution to that to strip them of their right to free speech?


Of course not. However, that is they way Putin's Russia works (well, you actually get killed if you are too troublesome) - a country the anti-migration crowd in Sweden favours.

Banning users from commenting on articles solves nothing, but I'm sceptical about the importance of facts in swaying people's opinions. Think facts will make the guys of Kekistan belive there were various types of concentration/death camps in Nazi German controlled areas? ;)



Some people you can convince, while others are too stubborn and will never be convinced.

So those who are too ignorant to accept some things (such as the fact that there were various types of concentration/death camps in Nazi German controlled areas) will continue to wallow in their ignorance.
Let them sit in the dark corner of their mother's basement believing those things.
As long as that is all they do, remain believing that, OR even using their free speech to tell others about it, they (at least in the USA) have a right to do so.
The moment that they incite violence (such as the idiot in Massachusetts I posted about that Tweeted an offer of $500 to anyone killing an ICE Agent), then they open themselves up to arrest and criminal prosecution.

And while the 1st Amendment in the US specifically applies to government infringing on free speech, Western Culture has also to a certain extent indicated that free speech should apply in a broader sense as well.
Is Alex Jones an idiot for some of things that he says? IMHO, yes, there is not doubt about that.
Should Alex Jones free speech be curtailed by social media sites deplatforming him?
No, I would not agree with that.
By doing so, there will be heightened attention in the media. You risk turning them into a martyr of sorts.

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 Post subject: Re: Welcome to Sweden
PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 3:32 pm 
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Kameolontti wrote:
How about having a real army of real men to keep Russians out...


I don't have a problem with women in the armed forces. I have great faith in the competence of the Swedish armed forces, needs to be much larger again because the post USSR eternal peace didn't happen. Some equipment is overdue for replacement so funding needs to increase. Patriot is an improvement - but is it the best choice under the circumstances? I'm interested in Anti Air because that was my branch.

European Sniper Competition 2018:

Quote:
So, which team won? As strong patriots, we here at Tactical-Life were naturally rooting for the United States, but alas, it wasn’t to be. Instead, Sweden took the top spot, with Slovenia placing second, Germany coming in third, Sweden once again in fourth and Canada in fifth place.


https://www.tactical-life.com/news/europe-best-sniper-team-competition/



I figure God/Allah is made up. I won't be a champion for any religion, if you have to belive in God/Allah, fine. Don't be a dick about it - the majority of Muslims might well be dicks about it, but all are not.


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 Post subject: Re: Welcome to Sweden
PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 4:01 pm 
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- misattributed to Alexis De Tocqueville

No representations made as to the accuracy of info in posted news articles or links


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 Post subject: Re: Welcome to Sweden
PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 4:14 pm 
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chijohnaok wrote:
Should Alex Jones...


I'm not very familiar with Alex Jones. Is he a beliver in the stuff he broadcasts, or is it about him getting some dollars...?


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 Post subject: Re: Welcome to Sweden
PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 5:10 pm 
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wulfir wrote:
chijohnaok wrote:
Should Alex Jones...


I'm not very familiar with Alex Jones. Is he a beliver in the stuff he broadcasts, or is it about him getting some dollars...?



I have listened to some of Alex Jones stuff in the past (not very often though) and don't really watch him much anymore.
That said, my personal opinion of him is that he probably has a profit motive in some of the stuff that he pushes (captalism is still a good thing though ;-) ).

Whether he actually believes the stuff that he is pushing?
I don't know.

It still boils down to this:
Should Jones be allowed to spout his videos, articles and opinions?
Should people be able to hear his stuff, and then judge for themselves if he is a crack pot or not?
Or should he be de-platformed?

And let me be clear with regards to this:
Faecbook, You Tube, Twitter, and other social media sites are companies/businesses.
I believe that they have a right to set their own Terms of Service (provided those TOS do not conflict with any applicable laws).
I believe that they have a right to suspend or ban their users that violate those TOS.

Some of these sites have in the past proclaimed their support for free speech.
What some of them however do is fail to consistently apply their policies across the board.
What some of them fail to do is be consistent in their suspensions or bans.

People who are white and have posted on social media statements that are derogatory to blacks, hispanics or other minority groups have been banned for violating the TOS.
On the other hand, there have been some non-white people (Sarah Jeong as an example) who have posted things on social media that are equally derogatory to whites, and some of these social media sites have done nothing.
When Candace Owens (a black female by the way) reposted some of Sarah Jeong's own words, but substitured the word "black" for the word "white" she found herself slapped with a 12 hour suspension (and if I am not mistaken this was done with Sarah Jeong's original tweets were left intact, and no suspensions/punishment issued to Jeong).

Social media sites, and companies in general, are subject to the marketplace. If consumers do not like their product; if consumers do not like how that company acts; if consumers do not like how that company treats its customers, they can (theoretically) take their business elsewhere.

Where it does get more complicated in today's environment, at what point do these company's hold such a large share of the marketplace, that you don't have a realistic alternative to them?
When multiple social media sites (almost) simultaneously drop the banner hammer on a person, can this rise to the level of them coordinating to de-platform that person?
It's complicated and I don't know all the answers to that.

At the end of the day, I would rather lean towards the side of free speech (without significant restrictions place on it by goverment or private companies) than I would in more restriction (or selective enforcement) on free speech.

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- misattributed to Alexis De Tocqueville

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 Post subject: Re: Welcome to Sweden
PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 8:19 pm 
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My sense is Alex Jones is a snake oil salesman, but excellent meme material. So he tends to be "accepted" by certain unruly elements within the online-libertarian culture.

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 Post subject: Re: Welcome to Sweden
PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 3:50 pm 
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Warzone GBG:

https://twitter.com/ZagrosHama/status/1029082019211309057?s=19

Coming soon to a Breitbart near you...


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