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 Post subject: Re: Welcome to Sweden
PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 8:10 am 
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wulfir wrote:
Maybe so - yet when it comes to the election procedure in Sweden I'm correct and your Finnish pet Kam is not. ;)


“Your Finnish pet”, dafuq?

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 Post subject: Re: Welcome to Sweden
PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 4:39 pm 
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EUBanana wrote:
“Your Finnish pet”, dafuq?


JTGEN, Juba, TheFatFinn, Finnalist, nero - over the years there's been a long list of obnoxious Finnish flame warriors who did their best at upsetting Americans, esp. right wing Americans.

And then there's Kam - who is pretty much the opposite of those Finns mentioned above. I get how he might be a welcome change to the "Finnish critics" and his anti-Sweden campaign must be entertaining but his whine post about the Swedish election system is poorly put together and mostly based on bullshit.

Sort of like the Russian "election truck" of his.

Next... :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Welcome to Sweden
PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 11:38 pm 
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https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/09/ ... sh-speech/

Quote:
How 9/11 Made a European Upper-Middle-Class Radical a Conservative

By Annika Hernroth-Rothstein

September 11, 2018 6:30 AM

‘Freedom and fear, justice and cruelty, have always been at war, and we know that God is not neutral between them.’

On September 11, 2001, I was sitting on the floor of my sister’s living room, babysitting her one-year-old daughter. We were lazily playing, with the afternoon news on the TV in the background. The first thing I noticed was how the anchor’s voice changed. The woman was saying “Wait, wait,” while staring to the side of the camera. There had been a horrible accident, she said, as I watched the smoke pour out of the first tower. When the second plane hit, I hoped beyond hope she was right.

I had just gotten back from a year in France. A few months earlier, I’d been standing in a crowded bar on Place de Clichy, celebrating my 20th birthday. I remember that night, although several bottles of bad white wine say I shouldn’t. I was surrounded by my peers, other upper-middle-class liberals who had fled to Paris to fulfill their fantasy. We had come to this historical city to live the life of songs and books and Technicolor movies. We were radicals. We were heroes. We were going to change the world.


The people with me in that bar were a random sample of the political atmosphere of Europe at the time. Militant feminists, pro-Palestinians, members of the autonomic environmentalist movement, and your run-of the-mill anti-government thugs. Having a friend who had been jailed for rioting was as necessary as a Malcolm X T-shirt and a back-pocket paperback of Catcher in the Rye. I gladly picked up that uniform, just as I picked up rocks and banners knowing that this was the ticket to ride.

Raised in a family of academics, this was a natural evolution on my part and a result of a serious political interest. I identified as an intellectual and as a political thinker with a critical mind. What I failed to acknowledge at the time was that my country was a controlled environment and that the spectrum on which political analysis took place was limited. Not unlike The Truman Show, where the choices you think you are making were already made for you long ago, and any dreams of a different fate are swiftly corrected.

I left my one-bedroom apartment in the chic slum of the 19th Arrondissement in June 2001. I was headed back to Gothenburg, Sweden, and the mass protest against the EU summit and George W. Bush. I planned to be back in time to see the first leaves fall on the Champs Elysées. Turns out, that didn’t happen.

Night fell and morning broke before I managed to get off that floor to answer my phone. On the other end I heard my boyfriend’s voice, chanting frantically:

Two more towers! Two more towers! Two more towers!

He and his friends were having a party, celebrating the attack on America. He called to invite me, and to this day I have never felt such intense shame.

During his speech on September 14, 2001, President Bush said that adversity introduces us to ourselves. Well, on that day I was introduced to who I had been and who I truly was. I saw my own place in the context of history, and how the ideas that I helped promote, the accusations I had met with silence, all had a part in shaping the world I now saw burning before me.

It wasn’t a game. I had played it, but it was never a game.

In the weeks that followed, I watched the American news with one eye, and its European counterpart with the other. It was like seeing the slow shifting of the tectonic plates, dividing the world through op-eds and analysis. On September 12, 2001, the headline of the largest Swedish newspaper read, “We Are All Americans.” A few weeks later, that beautiful creed had already been forgotten. The one time my country could side with the U.S. was when America was on its knees, but when it refused to stay down it quickly went back to the smug relativism of World War II, the icy efficiency of a country never having to fight for either ethics or its existence.

Soon enough, the narrative was clear. The end of the story had already been written: The U.S. was unjustly acting as the world police, once again. Bush was a moron and a puppet. America was killing innocent people for oil. It went on and on, and all I could think was that if I know that these things are not true, then what other lies have I accepted as truth throughout my life?

So I pulled at the thread of my ideology, and it all unraveled before me.

On September 20, I watched Bush’s address to Congress. I had heard him speak before, but on this night, I listened — and one sentence jumped out and grabbed me:

“Freedom and fear, justice and cruelty, have always been at war, and we know that God is not neutral between them.”

So I asked myself if I was free. Not free in movement or by law, but free in thought and intellect. I was not, nor had I ever been. The politics I had held and protected so violently were a version of the norm, and for all my intellect and breeding I had done nothing more than tout the company line.

I left everything that year; it was like walking away from the scene of a crime. I remember thinking that it would have been easier leaving a cult — at least then there would be a welcoming, sane majority on the other side. Or if there had been a physical wall to climb and a dictator to topple, instead of the silent oppression of the consensus.

My country did not change that day, but I had to; the tectonic plates where shifting, and I decided to jump.

When I stood in that bar toasting myself, I thought I was a radical. Today, as a neocon in Sweden, I know I was wrong.

I was raised in a country where that neutrality — that indifference before right and wrong — is a badge of honor. I was taught that morality is weakness, faith is ignorance, and the concept of good and evil is cause for ridicule.

On September 11, 2001, I saw, for the first time, the difference between fear and freedom, and I vowed not to be neutral between them, ever again.



Why did I include this in the Sweden thread?
Because she is born and raised in Sweden; her family (including her ancestors) have lived in Sweden for 200 years.

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 Post subject: Re: Welcome to Sweden
PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 3:07 pm 
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In the weeks that followed, I watched the American news with one eye, and its European counterpart with the other. It was like seeing the slow shifting of the tectonic plates, dividing the world through op-eds and analysis. On September 12, 2001, the headline of the largest Swedish newspaper read, “We Are All Americans.”

I doubt it. IIRC it was a French newspaper.

DN, September 12, 2001:

Image

The one time my country could side with the U.S. was when America was on its knees, but when it refused to stay down it quickly went back to the smug relativism of World War II, the icy efficiency of a country never having to fight for either ethics or its existence.

Ethics well - but 30 some wars with Denmark and Russia suggests otherwise on the existance part. And the cold war, hmm....?


I was raised in a country where that neutrality — that indifference before right and wrong — is a badge of honor. I was taught that morality is weakness, faith is ignorance, and the concept of good and evil is cause for ridicule.

Obviously, the woes of other nations and peoples is not Sweden's problems to solve. [/whistle] :mrgreen:


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 Post subject: Re: Welcome to Sweden
PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 3:09 pm 
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Annika H-Rothstein on the anti-migration Sweden Democrats:

Quote:
The underperformance of the Sweden Democrats is an encouraging sign that Sweden isn’t preparing to tumble down the nationalist path trod recently by other European countries—at least not yet. Formed in 1988, the party has roots in the Swedish fascist and neo-Nazi movements, but the 39-year old Mr. Åkesson has worked hard to distance the Sweden Democrats from its unsavory past. The party’s success has nonetheless scrambled the traditional calculus of Swedish politics, turning sworn enemies into allies and the formerly unthinkable into a fact.


Unsavory past, eh... :P

https://www.wsj.com/articles/nationalism-riseseven-in-sweden-1536619575


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 Post subject: Re: Welcome to Sweden
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 12:35 am 
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America is an heroic nation. Anyone who cannot just come right out and admit that and state it freely can fuck straight off.

Doesn't mean all Americans are perfect, nor even that the nation is perfect. Doesn't mean we always get our way or that we are infallible or that the nation is infallible. But the constant back-biting HATE from a world which the United States has saved multiple times over is pathetic and dull and all you who engage in it can fuck straight off.

Not sure that is your shticht Wulfir, and if it isn't then no harm done as I wasn't talking to you. I'm not even sure it really is Nero's shticht either as he seems to just be pathological. But Kam understands the role the United States has played in world history for the last 100 + years and while I don't see him fawning all over any of us or America itself, he is at least respectful and conveys his general appreciation for the society. So that makes him a "Finnish pet?" in your eyes? Pretty sad bro.

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 Post subject: Re: Welcome to Sweden
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 1:09 pm 
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Anthropoid wrote:
So that makes him a "Finnish pet?" in your eyes?


He's in the Funny Sweden thread posting false information about the Swedish election and claiming it is the exact same level of stuff I usually throw at (the) USA. Which is, in fact, yet more BS. That is pretty sad. His assessments on my opinions are so wide off target that sad does not even begin to describe the level of actual fail. While you guys might fold in the face of his pro-America charm offensive - I have to try to check some of his more outrageous lies. Somebody's gotta' do it. ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Welcome to Sweden
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 12:41 pm 
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How did this become a "You are either 'with Sweden,' or you are 'with USA' thread!?" :P

I really don't get it.

We Americans generally have no problem admitting the myriad ways in which our society is fucked up and flawed and misused by various elements within it. I guess that MIGHT be why we are the leader of the planet: a considerable capacity for earnest self-examination and self-reflection?

Sweden: typical view seems to be "We are perfect, and you should learn from US, you savages."

Admittedly, Minecraft was pretty brilliant, but I don't know if that qualifies you as "Utopia." :lol:

The fact that Paradox Interactive has a long history of releasing deeply flawed games, and then progressively patching them up into decent games over years and months, AND has in recent years closed the gap on the distance between release-flaws and post-release fixes is also impressive; but again I'm not sure it qualifies as an indicator of Utopian.

Apart from that, and the fact you guys sell a fuckload of arms and armaments internationally (or at least historically did, haven't kept up last 5 years or so) I can't say there is anything particular distinctive about Sweden to me.

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 Post subject: Re: Welcome to Sweden
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 2:14 am 
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...wulfir...

58% of rapes in Sweden made by foreigners.

Image

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 Post subject: Re: Welcome to Sweden
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 1:29 pm 
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Anthropoid wrote:
How did this become a "You are either 'with Sweden,' or you are 'with USA' thread!?" :P


It didn't.

The purpose of this thread remains the same.

Kam defended his poorly worded and baseless posts on the Swedish election with "it's the exact same thing you thrown at the United States" - which is just another lie - but, nonetheless he played the US card probably hoping for some Marshall aid. :D

You Anthro brought up the Nazis to illustrate the vile nature of Muslims. I think I did a fair job of explaining the far right scene in Sweden - some who actually call themselves Nazis. The current third largest party in Sweden has brown roots, an "unsavory past" in Annika N-Rothstein's words. If you got the idea that I meant "Sweden is perfect" given this development there is no hope for you. :P


Anthropoid wrote:
Apart from that, and the fact you guys sell a fuckload of arms and armaments internationally (or at least historically did, haven't kept up last 5 years or so) I can't say there is anything particular distinctive about Sweden to me.


Fear not, I'll be here to put the doom and gloom of Gates of Vienna into a little perspective. 8-)

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