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 Post subject: Re: Welcome to Sweden
PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 12:59 am 
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wulfir wrote:
Question abrad, is this the sort of stuff you mean with anti-Muslim?


Here's an Islam critical opinion piece from Göteborgs-posten, the biggest morning newspaper in the Göteborg region (western Sweden) titeled "We must dare to challenge all kinds of Islamic extremism":
(maybe you can google translate it, if not I'll do it next week, too tired tonite):

Quote:
Vi måste våga utmana all slags islamisk extremism


http://www.gp.se/nyheter/debatt/vi-m%C3%A5ste-v%C3%A5ga-utmana-all-slags-islamisk-extremism-1.5174981


That is very interesting. Very promising too I'd say. Here is some text I copy-pasted from Google translates magic.

Quote:
We must dare to challenge all kinds of Islamic extremism
DEBATE The Islamic Conservatives, not Jihadists or other Islamists who dream of a caliphate and sharia days, are the big group whose value base has been relatively free play for too long. Through this we have let down especially women, HBTQ people and ex-Muslims. Stop playing the Islamic extremists in your hands and make sure that all ideas and traditions are not welcome in our society, writes Omar Makram, GAPF.

Freedom of religion does not mean boundless freedom that goes as far as breaking the freedom and dignity of others

The Islamic Conservatives do not necessarily identify themselves as Islamists, but they have extremely conservative and reactionary opinions. They are joined by the following values:

Limiting the freedom of others

Everything other than heterosexuality is considered to be a disease or perversion that insults God and should not be allowed. This view, of course, leads to oppression and persecution of HBTQ people.
The idea of ​​the man as the guardian of the woman cement the patriarchal structure and clearly contradicts the principle of gender equality.
The freedom of the man to beat his unmarried wife implies divine sanction to practice violence against women.
The madness culture means that a good woman shows modesty and that she does not expose her pleasure to other men, otherwise she is a whore. The woman is reduced to a sex object that should be hidden in order not to start the men in temptation.
We can see that this chastity culture has gone so far that tiny children are forced to wear hijab. This is a sexualization of their bodies depriving them of their childhood.

Relationships outside of marriage are eliminated. Women are denied their sexual freedom and the consequences of going against the norm are terrible, if not even fatal. Most would not dare to go against the norm even if they wanted, for fear of the consequences. This is a form of oppression, even if it is not a breakdown.

Islamic doctrine, therefore, requires gender segregation to preserve chastity and control women's sexuality. This causes terrible consequences for the relationship between the sexes and their views on each other.

Preserves the culture of honor and oppression . . . etc.


Any of you can easily read the entire thing in English in Chrome, just click "Translate This" . . .

Assuming that this is a big morning paper (I have no reason to disbelieve you, I just wouldn't be able to tell if it was or wasn't myself), then this does make several points fairly clear:

1. The article is arguing AGAINST what it suggests is a prevailing view of indulgence toward Islam, and a failure to recognize that "extremism" does not mean only those who engage in violence. I agree very much with that message, and I think it needs to be expressed as a counter argument to a very similar prevailing misunderstanding in America.

2. The essay is essentially making the point that reasonable moderate voices of caution have been making all along: that no matter how good the intentions of letting large numbers of Muslims into one's country for humanitarian reasons, there is an inherent cultural and ethical divide which makes that national policy inherently very risky.

3. There are multiple "layers" or segments within Islam, with those who engage in violence being only the tip of the iceberg and those who merely support it passively being more numerous. I've made so many posts on this board making this exact point it pains me to have to repeat it again, but the overall point is: Islam is not a civilized religion. MOST Muslims have never engaged in terrorism nor will they very likely. But they adhere to beliefs and practices that promote terrorism and they engage in a wide range of social behaviors that facilitate acts of terrorism by a small minority segment within their society. Think of Einsatzgruppen, and the Waffen SS: a tiny fraction of Nazi Germany and arguably the ones most directly responsible for the evils of Naziism (setting aside the evils of German "international relations" as a separate thing . . .). But these soldiers could not have operated WITHOUT a society behind them. Their effectiveness at dehumanizing, brutalizing, raping and slaughtering were directly proportional to the devoted support that their movement, the Nazi movement, received from the millions of mild-mannered Germans back home. The same is true of Islam, ALL OF IT. Islam is culpable and that means that any Muslim is a suspect in the crimes of Islam against humanity; not to say that every Muslim must be held accountable or brought up on charges much less harassed physically. But to make the point of how these supremacist, violent movements function and how they must be fought. You don't fight virulent, hateful, intolerant, bigoted, supremacist murder cults by indulging them as "refugees." Are there seriously NO native born Swedes who have no need of that indulgence!?

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 Post subject: Re: Welcome to Sweden
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 5:18 am 
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Anthropoid wrote:
You don't fight virulent, hateful, intolerant, bigoted, supremacist murder cults by indulging them as "refugees." Are there seriously NO native born Swedes who have no need of that indulgence!?


Carl Bergqvist, fighter pilot and commander of 72 Sqn last week ran the @sweden twitter account. IIRC it became famous for banning Tim Pool. Bergqvist's assesment was:

In translation, roughly:

"It has been an interesting week as @sweden. Some trolling from foreign interests who do their outmost to denigrate Sweden. Then there is also the internal(?) extremists who lack the ability to use logic, something one never cease to be astonished over."

There is much scepticism when it comes to Muslims and immigration in Sweden - but certain actors come with certain baggage. Right now there's more crap flying in the "Egor Putilov" case, Putilov or whatever his real name is, is one of the anti-immigration champions, but he is also a guy with a not quite kosher past...


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 Post subject: Re: Welcome to Sweden
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 5:38 pm 
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http://www.breitbart.com/london/2018/02 ... amic-veil/

Quote:
Teen in Sweden Beat Sister with Baseball Bat for Refusing to Wear Islamic Veil


by CHRIS TOMLINSON
19 Feb 2018

A 19-year-old man in Sweden has been charged with abuse after he beat his 14-year-old sister with a baseball bat because she refused to wear an Islamic veil.

The young man, who lives in the municipality of Karlskrona, was brought before the Blekinge District Court last week on charges of abuse and assault. He is alleged to have struck his younger sister with a baseball bat several times while yelling at her “wear a veil”, 24Blekinge reports.


The 19-year-old is said to have become angry with his sister after she returned from a shopping trip with their mother and he noticed she was not wearing an Islamic veil. When he asked her why she was not wearing a veil, the girl refused to answer. The brother then walked to his room and emerged with a baseball bat which he used to strike the 14-year-old on the head, leg, and arm.

Another member of the family, an older sister, ran into her room and called the police. When the officers arrived at the house, the young man was arrested and admitted the assault claiming that he did not hit her “very hard” but refused to give the reason for the assault.

So-called “honour-culture” has become a heated topic in Sweden and as many as 240,000 young people from migrant backgrounds are said to be affected by it.

Dilek Baladiz, a manager at a centre for victims of honour violence, has claimed that the number of young women seeking help has dramatically increased in recent years, up 50 per cent since the height of the migrant crisis in 2015.

“In some areas there is repression. The more compatriots in an area, the more pressure there is to live according to the norms of honour and the more watchful eyes,” Baladiz said noting that the issue was much more prevalent in Sweden’s heavily migrant-populated suburbs.

In 2016, many were concerned after a number of stickers appeared in various towns across the country which said: “Women who don’t wear a headscarf are asking to be raped.”

Islamisation fears were also raised earlier this week when a Muslim group in Växjö demanded to be able to publicly broadcast a call to prayer on Fridays. The request was met with support from the local Church of Sweden Bishop Fredrik Modeus who said he was “looking forward” to hearing the call alongside church bells.


This can't be just a "muslim" thing, can it?
Do other (non-Muslim) Swedes beat their sisters and daughters for not wearing a veil?

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 Post subject: Re: Welcome to Sweden
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 6:42 pm 
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PJW's latest report on Sweden. Probably all exaggerations, right Wulfir?

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 Post subject: Re: Welcome to Sweden
PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 1:53 pm 
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Anthropoid wrote:
Probably all exaggerations, right Wulfir?


Zapped through it. It has a strong bullshit tilt, yes. Hanif Bali is interviewed - he is IIRC of Iranian origin and one of the more witty immigration resisters, and belongs to the right-wing moderaterna (i.e. not the Sweden Democrats who are basically built upon resistance to immigration).

Sweden's National Day (June 6th) does not have much of a tradition - but efforts have been made to give more weight to it (making it a holliday, which it wasn't before) etc. Been too long since we got rid of the Danes and their Kalmar Union I guess...


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 Post subject: Re: Welcome to Sweden
PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 1:55 pm 
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Italian paper reports troll attacks typically follow any article about Sweden regardless of subject - news about (Swedish) technology, fashion, culture or whatever provoke 300 or so angry messages mostly about Sweden's supposed migration related disintegration. The messages are written in Italian and of such volume the paper did research into it. It seems there are minor differences in the messages and the bulk of them can be traced to servers in Lithuania and the Ukraine.

The paper sees it as an organised effort at puncturing a positive outlook on Sweden.


http://sverigesradio.se/sida/artikel.aspx?programid=83&artikel=6893460


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 Post subject: Re: Welcome to Sweden
PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 2:45 pm 
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wulfir wrote:
Italian paper reports troll attacks typically follow any article about Sweden regardless of subject - news about (Swedish) technology, fashion, culture or whatever provoke 300 or so angry messages mostly about Sweden's supposed migration related disintegration. The messages are written in Italian and of such volume the paper did research into it. It seems there are minor differences in the messages and the bulk of them can be traced to servers in Lithuania and the Ukraine.

The paper sees it as an organised effort at puncturing a positive outlook on Sweden.


http://sverigesradio.se/sida/artikel.aspx?programid=83&artikel=6893460
Why troll Sweden?

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 Post subject: Re: Welcome to Sweden
PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 12:49 am 
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wulfir wrote:
Italian paper reports troll attacks typically follow any article about Sweden regardless of subject - news about (Swedish) technology, fashion, culture or whatever provoke 300 or so angry messages mostly about Sweden's supposed migration related disintegration. The messages are written in Italian and of such volume the paper did research into it. It seems there are minor differences in the messages and the bulk of them can be traced to servers in Lithuania and the Ukraine.

The paper sees it as an organised effort at puncturing a positive outlook on Sweden.


http://sverigesradio.se/sida/artikel.aspx?programid=83&artikel=6893460


RUSSIAN HACKING STRIKES AGAIN! :P

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 Post subject: Re: Welcome to Sweden
PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 5:26 am 
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... yeah. Shadowy cyberwarfare outfits in Lithuania with incomprehensible motivations, or third world migrants are a bit rapey, like they have been everywhere else.

Where should Occams razor fall on that?

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 Post subject: Re: Welcome to Sweden
PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 11:34 am 
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abradley wrote:
Why troll Sweden?


Well, the target population in this case is Italian..., maybe it's an easy way to plant divisions between EU-countries.

Who exactly is behind these messages is not known. Could be Russians I guess - from what I gather it is a response to American soft power...


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