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 Post subject: Re: Tolerance and free speech
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 5:30 pm 
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mdiehl wrote:
For me it's easy to spot a genuine fascist.

If they're trying to prevent someone from speaking an opinion, the person doing the preventing might be a fascist.
If they're throwing objects at people to deter them from speaking and opinion, the person doing the throwing might be a fascist.
If they're being violent, such as ramming into a crowd with a car, or bashing people in the head with bicycle U-locks, they might be a fascist.
If they're encouraging someone else to do any of those things, the person doing the encouraging is probably a fascist.
If they're demanding the suspension of rights enumerated in the Bill of Rights for the 'security of the state' or for 'the good of society,' the person is probably a fascist,

If they're doing two or more of the above, the person IS a fascist.

How about this lot? Good people, like Trump says? :roll:



Just curious.

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 Post subject: Re: Tolerance and free speech
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 8:18 pm 
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mdiehl wrote:
For me it's easy to spot a genuine fascist.

If they're trying to prevent someone from speaking an opinion, the person doing the preventing might be a fascist.
If they're throwing objects at people to deter them from speaking and opinion, the person doing the throwing might be a fascist.
If they're being violent, such as ramming into a crowd with a car, or bashing people in the head with bicycle U-locks, they might be a fascist.
If they're encouraging someone else to do any of those things, the person doing the encouraging is probably a fascist.
If they're demanding the suspension of rights enumerated in the Bill of Rights for the 'security of the state' or for 'the good of society,' the person is probably a fascist,

If they're doing two or more of the above, the person IS a fascist.


Beer. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Tolerance and free speech
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 8:57 pm 
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Not a Trump fan, but anyone who says he created the current environment is as racist as he apparently is. His problem is he is an idiot who does not get how to frame the issues that, quite frankly, I agree with most of the time. Example: Immigration. Just shut up and respond to every question posed with I am enforcing current immigration laws. If you don't like the laws, then change them. That last is apparently a larger leap than the so called pro immigration people can handle. Easier to just call anyone who is pro enforce the current law a racist then to actually formulate a resolution.

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 Post subject: Re: Tolerance and free speech
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 11:32 pm 
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Quote:
His problem is he is an idiot who does not get how to frame the issues that, quite frankly, I agree with most of the time.


You agree w/ him most of the time. So who is it that decided for you that he's an idiot? Certainly not you since you agree w/ him most of the time. Ppl I mostly agree w/, I don't consider them idiots so what gives? There's nothing wrong w/ talking to a psychoanalyst if you don't understand your own true feelings, and/or if ppl are influencing your thoughts when maybe they shouldn't be able to do that.

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 Post subject: Re: Tolerance and free speech
PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2019 12:41 am 
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C_S wrote:
Quote:
His problem is he is an idiot who does not get how to frame the issues that, quite frankly, I agree with most of the time.


You agree w/ him most of the time. So who is it that decided for you that he's an idiot? Certainly not you since you agree w/ him most of the time. Ppl I mostly agree w/, I don't consider them idiots so what gives? There's nothing wrong w/ talking to a psychoanalyst if you don't understand your own true feelings, and/or if ppl are influencing your thoughts when maybe they shouldn't be able to do that.


He doesn't talk pretty. He talks coarse.

I think he does this intentionally. In fact, I think if you observe how he spoke when he was younger, he was more eloquent. His brusque manner since no later than 2015 (but perhaps earlier) seems to be an intentional personae that is used for effect. It ingratiates him to people who detest self-important, fancy talkers like Obama, and indeed most politicians. It infuriates and provokes people who think that being a fancy talker like most politicians is a qualification for being a states person or civic leader.

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 Post subject: Re: Tolerance and free speech
PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2019 1:46 am 
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Anthropoid wrote:
C_S wrote:

You agree w/ him most of the time. So who is it that decided for you that he's an idiot? Certainly not you since you agree w/ him most of the time. Ppl I mostly agree w/, I don't consider them idiots so what gives? There's nothing wrong w/ talking to a psychoanalyst if you don't understand your own true feelings, and/or if ppl are influencing your thoughts when maybe they shouldn't be able to do that.


He doesn't talk pretty. He talks coarse.

I think he does this intentionally. In fact, I think if you observe how he spoke when he was younger, he was more eloquent. His brusque manner since no later than 2015 (but perhaps earlier) seems to be an intentional personae that is used for effect. It ingratiates him to people who detest self-important, fancy talkers like Obama, and indeed most politicians. It infuriates and provokes people who think that being a fancy talker like most politicians is a qualification for being a states person or civic leader.


My bold emphasis above.


Trump’s education background:
He
Quote:
transferred to the Wharton School of the University of Pennsylvania.[10][11] While at Wharton, he worked at the family business, Elizabeth Trump & Son.[12] He graduated in May 1968 with a B.S. in economics.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Trump

Re: Wharton:

Quote:
The Wharton School of the University of Pennsylvania (/ˈhwɔːrtən/ WHAWR-tən; also known as Wharton Business School, The Wharton School or simply Wharton) is the business school of the University of Pennsylvania, a private Ivy League university in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. Established in 1881 through a donation from Joseph Wharton, the Wharton School is the world's oldest collegiate school of business.[4] Furthermore, Wharton is the business school that has produced the highest number of billionaires in the US.[5][6][7]

The Wharton School awards Bachelor of Science in Economics degrees at the undergraduate level and Master of Business Administration degrees at the postgraduate level, both of which require the selection of a major. Wharton also offers a doctoral program and houses, or co-sponsors, several diploma programs either alone or in conjunction with the other schools at the university.[8]

Wharton's MBA program is ranked No. 1 in the United States according to Forbes[9] and No. 1 in the United States according to the 2020 U.S. News & World Report ranking.[10] Meanwhile, Wharton's MBA for Executives and undergraduate programs are also ranked No. 2 and No. 1, respectively, in the United States by the same publications.[11][12] According to US News, MBA graduates of Wharton earn an average $159,815 first year base pay not including bonuses, the highest at leading schools.[13][14] Wharton's MBA program is tied for the highest in the United States average GMAT score of 732 (97th percentile) for its entering class.[15] In general, Wharton has over 95,000 alumni in 153 countries,[4] with notable figures such as Donald Trump, Jeremy Rifkin, Elon Musk, Warren Buffett, Sundar Pichai, Nassim Nicholas Taleb, Aditya Mittal, Steven A. Cohen, Jeff Weiner, Anil Ambani, John Sculley, Walter Annenberg, Leonard Lauder, Laurence Tisch, Michael Moritz, Ruth Porat, Kunal Bahl, and William Wrigley Jr. II. Its alumni include the CEOs of Google, LinkedIn, The Blackstone Group, CBS, General Electric, Boeing, Pfizer, Comcast, Oracle, DHL, UPS, Pepsi, Time, Inc, BlackRock, Johnson & Johnson, UBS AG, Wrigley Company, and Tesco.[16]


Quote:
Wharton is widely regarded as one of the world's top institutions for business education. In 2014–2015, as well as 2017–2018, U.S. News & World Report ranked Wharton's undergraduate program first in the U.S.,[11] MBA program tied for first in the U.S.,[10] and executive MBA program also first,.[80] The undergraduate program at the Wharton School has been ranked number one by U.S. News & World Report every single year since inception.[citation needed] The Financial Times has ranked the Wharton School first in the world in every single year between 2000 and 2009, and again in 2011, conferring Wharton with the best overall performance in the rankings.[81] The Wharton School has also been ranked number one by Bloomberg Businessweek four times in a row.[82]


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wharton ... nnsylvania


The man graduated from what is one of the best business schools, an Ivy League school, in the United States.

I think that Anthro is probably correct.....his persona does seem to be tailored to reach the common man.

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 Post subject: Re: Tolerance and free speech
PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2019 10:17 pm 
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C_S wrote:
Quote:
His problem is he is an idiot who does not get how to frame the issues that, quite frankly, I agree with most of the time.


You agree w/ him most of the time. So who is it that decided for you that he's an idiot? Certainly not you since you agree w/ him most of the time. Ppl I mostly agree w/, I don't consider them idiots so what gives? There's nothing wrong w/ talking to a psychoanalyst if you don't understand your own true feelings, and/or if ppl are influencing your thoughts when maybe they shouldn't be able to do that.


It is perfectly reasonable to believe in issues but believe the man an idiot. IMHO the preident tweeting misspelled and poor grammar messages to name call makes him an idiot.

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 Post subject: Re: Tolerance and free speech
PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2019 11:04 pm 
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HancockTheSuperb wrote:
C_S wrote:

You agree w/ him most of the time. So who is it that decided for you that he's an idiot? Certainly not you since you agree w/ him most of the time. Ppl I mostly agree w/, I don't consider them idiots so what gives? There's nothing wrong w/ talking to a psychoanalyst if you don't understand your own true feelings, and/or if ppl are influencing your thoughts when maybe they shouldn't be able to do that.


It is perfectly reasonable to believe in issues but believe the man an idiot. IMHO the preident tweeting misspelled and poor grammar messages to name call makes him an idiot.


I too, am not fond of the self-presentation. You may be correct that it is a result of idiocy; but I find that hard to believe, given everything else we know about Trump. I submit to you that, it may be genius, at least to the extent it makes his brand appealing to those segments of the electorate estranged by the New Totalitarian Tribe and in need of a leader they could believe in.

Many, perhaps most Twatters tweet twoots riddled with typos or spelling errors, grammatical errors or shorthands and all for the sake of one form or another of name-calling. A "no nonsense" President who also tweets error ridden twoots is bound to be more approachable and likeable to the hullabaloo.

Scipio Africanus the Elder is reported to have explained that, while he was not a religious man, and believed that the oracles and their silly rituals were just silly, he nonetheless felt it was ESSENTIAL to speak compellingly about the need to garner the favor of the Gods and to allow the soothsayers to engage in their antics. It gave the common riffraff in the army something they could chew on and believe in.

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 Post subject: Re: Tolerance and free speech
PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2019 11:48 pm 
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Consider the historical evidence. He outwitted Ted Cruz who was US national debate champion and all the brilliant Davos crowd that supported Jeb Bush and Hillary, who was the smartest woman in the world.

Not to mention the guy who predicted a nice 96% chance of Hillary winning.

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 Post subject: Re: Tolerance and free speech
PostPosted: Thu May 30, 2019 7:06 am 
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https://iotwreport.com/study-only-18-pe ... in-public/

Quote:
Study: Only 18 Per Cent of Germans Think They Are Free to Express Their Opinions in Public

May 28, 2019 MJA Uncategorized 16

Summit News:

The poor state of free speech in Europe has been highlighted once again by a poll which found that just 18 per cent of Germans felt they were free to express themselves in public.

The survey, conducted by the Allensbach Institute for Demoscopy and published in the Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung, asked Germans a series of questions to determine how taboo openly expressing forthright opinions had become.


59 per cent of respondents out of the 1283 sample said they felt comfortable expressing themselves freely amongst friends, but only 18 per cent felt comparable freedom voicing their views in public.

In addition, just 17 per cent said they were comfortable expressing themselves freely on the Internet while a full 35 per cent said that freedom of speech is only possible in private circles.

The most taboo subjects are Islam and refugees, according to respondents, 41 per cent of whom said political correctness had gone too far.


The original linked article in German:
https://www.welt.de/politik/article1939 ... aenkt.html

When only Only 18 Per Cent of surveyed Germans Think They Are Free to Express Their Opinions in Public, then do they really have 'freedom of speech and expression'?

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