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 Post subject: Re: Self defense incidents
PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 11:58 am 
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They're looking for a "cost free" action that will allow them to pretend to have attempted to solve the problem.

The problem isn't firearms.

The problem isn't that people need more training in the use of firearms. They are spectacularly easy to use.

The problem is the utter lack of social support for people, with respect to mental health care, economic support, and life affirmation. Every one of these spree shooters save for those motivated by their religion was a social outcast with few or zero ties and zero access to mental health care.

Judging by the number of automobile deaths, there's a lot of angry people out there. Pretty much every automobile fatality results from aggressive or drunk drivers. Yet there is ZERO concern about it, and ZERO tolerance among the "Constitutional Rights Must Be Suspended If It Will Save Even One Innocent" crowd of hand wringing, EMO ridden, wielders of "swords" or other compensatory penetrating objects, for suspending the First Amendment.

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 Post subject: Re: Self defense incidents
PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 12:33 pm 
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jack t ripper wrote:
When you understand intent and context the 2nd is NOT ambiguous.

The SCOTUS has already put the "militia" argument to rest.

The "living document" argument is not really an argument, it is simply a talking point that fills the argument void. What the Hell good is a document enshrining individual rights if some nimrod gets to invent new meanings as the political wind blows?

This "bear arms" argument is so painfully stupid it makes my head hurt.

If the "living document" crowd hates the 2nd then they can just repeal the damn thing. There is a 225 year old mechanism that has already been exercised. Damn pussies need to quit whining about the NRA and get to work.



Image

mdiehl wrote:
They're looking for a "cost free" action that will allow them to pretend to have attempted to solve the problem.

The problem isn't firearms.

The problem isn't that people need more training in the use of firearms. They are spectacularly easy to use.

The problem is the utter lack of social support for people, with respect to mental health care, economic support, and life affirmation. Every one of these spree shooters save for those motivated by their religion was a social outcast with few or zero ties and zero access to mental health care.

Judging by the number of automobile deaths, there's a lot of angry people out there. Pretty much every automobile fatality results from aggressive or drunk drivers. Yet there is ZERO concern about it, and ZERO tolerance among the "Constitutional Rights Must Be Suspended If It Will Save Even One Innocent" crowd of hand wringing, EMO ridden, wielders of "swords" or other compensatory penetrating objects, for suspending the First Amendment.


Image

Goddang it. Kaint git the Kramer one to work just click the damn link
http://media.giphy.com/media/ap6wcjRyi8HoA/giphy.gif

In sum: the United States of America is THE MOST REVOLUTIONARY polity ever conceived. It makes "Communist" Russian look like a bad joke. THE PEOPLE have the right to ARM themselves in order to ensure a FREE STATE.

Statists, sheep, hysterical pacifist, cowards, all hate it. Charlatans use it as a pretext to either signal their virtue or "make it better."

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 Post subject: Re: Self defense incidents
PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 1:14 pm 
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Quote:
The problem is the utter lack of social support for people, with respect to mental health care, economic support, and life affirmation. Every one of these spree shooters save for those motivated by their religion was a social outcast with few or zero ties and zero access to mental health care.


This is 100% true. I run into this 5 days a week. Because I speak Spanish I have large numbers of patients with parents who are illegal. They are mostly unprepared for life in the US. Most can't really read, even in Spanish. They get screwed by landlords and school districts. If you live in a $5M house on Lido Island you can find a psychiatrist whose name you can pronounce and who actually has an office with a fish tank and classical music...but the 15 minute visit is $500 cash..otherwise..forget it. I have so many depressed teens in my practice I jump for joy when somebody with a treatable illness like asthma comes in.

A teen cuts her wrists...claims she doesn't remember...is dragged to the ER..psych "team" evaluates...stamps her "suicide risk"...go see your Pediatrician in 1-2 days. WTF?

Teen and adult psych beds are waaaay, waaay below need. It's rationing by beds. Taking care of psychiatric patients with severe illness is tremendously labor and resource intensive. You need psychiatry, inpatient beds, halfway houses, social work, police, legal support, expensive medications...etc

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 Post subject: Re: Self defense incidents
PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 2:03 pm 
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mdiehl wrote:
Gump plays the EMO card. Again. Take your meds, Gump. You were a happier person when you were fetishizing your, hmmm, "gladius," and imagining yourself defending your hovel with your, errrm, "sword."


I used to think that you were just a harmless, paranoid, nerd who hadn't spent enough time hanging around with men...

A guy who PM'd me a photo of Anthro that he had found because we was certain that Anthro was going to try to harm him.... he wanted to be sure I was prepared too.... :roll:

But now It's perfectly clear... you're just a sad little man who's gone completely over the edge.... I can't think of anything less interesting than arguing with a nut....

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 Post subject: Re: Self defense incidents
PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 3:06 pm 
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Pobrecito! :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: Self defense incidents
PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 3:35 pm 
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jack t ripper wrote:
Quote:
The problem is the utter lack of social support for people, with respect to mental health care, economic support, and life affirmation. Every one of these spree shooters save for those motivated by their religion was a social outcast with few or zero ties and zero access to mental health care.


This is 100% true. I run into this 5 days a week. Because I speak Spanish I have large numbers of patients with parents who are illegal. They are mostly unprepared for life in the US. Most can't really read, even in Spanish. They get screwed by landlords and school districts. If you live in a $5M house on Lido Island you can find a psychiatrist whose name you can pronounce and who actually has an office with a fish tank and classical music...but the 15 minute visit is $500 cash..otherwise..forget it. I have so many depressed teens in my practice I jump for joy when somebody with a treatable illness like asthma comes in.

A teen cuts her wrists...claims she doesn't remember...is dragged to the ER..psych "team" evaluates...stamps her "suicide risk"...go see your Pediatrician in 1-2 days. WTF?

Teen and adult psych beds are waaaay, waaay below need. It's rationing by beds. Taking care of psychiatric patients with severe illness is tremendously labor and resource intensive. You need psychiatry, inpatient beds, halfway houses, social work, police, legal support, expensive medications...etc


That's terrible.

Sounds like the situation will only get worse, too. :?

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 Post subject: Re: Self defense incidents
PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 4:47 pm 
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jack t ripper wrote:
When you understand intent and context the 2nd is NOT ambiguous.

The SCOTUS has already put the "militia" argument to rest.

The "living document" argument is not really an argument, it is simply a talking point that fills the argument void. What the Hell good is a document enshrining individual rights if some nimrod gets to invent new meanings as the political wind blows?

This "bear arms" argument is so painfully stupid it makes my head hurt.

If the "living document" crowd hates the 2nd then they can just repeal the damn thing. There is a 225 year old mechanism that has already been exercised. Damn pussies need to quit whining about the NRA and get to work.

I take the quest to understand the 2nd. I will use Lutheran catechisms method: what the Lord says, and what does it mead. I have the authority of 12 years of religion studies in school.

So the 2nd amendment: A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

I notice the implied structure: because X, therefore Y.

So: Because a well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, therefore the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

The 2nd was was adopted on December 15, 1791. In that time there was no standing army in the US, and anyway the idea of citizen soldiers was in fashion. And idolizing ancient Rome, early republic with all the virtues of armed citizenry.

Image

But with the professional standing army, the X part is obsolete, and then the Y part can/should be reconsidered. Civilians do not need military weapons.

IMHO.

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 Post subject: Re: Self defense incidents
PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 5:34 pm 
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There was a standing army prior to the Bill of Rights. It's in Article I.

IMO civilans have better cause to own military firearms than the government has.

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 Post subject: Re: Self defense incidents
PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 5:41 pm 
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mdiehl wrote:
There was a standing army prior to the Bill of Rights. It's in Article I.

IMO civilans have better cause to own military firearms than the government has.

There was no standing army 1791, was there?

And the idea of a standing army was not favoured in the early US.

Right?

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Mit der Dummheit kämpfen selbst Götter vergebens.


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 Post subject: Re: Self defense incidents
PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 8:21 pm 
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Yes. The US Army (standing army as you say) was founded in 1784. The oldest unit in the US Army, the First American (Infantry) Regiment, dates to that year.

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